I totally agree.  Right now it's totally inflexible and useful for only certain ways of working.  I hope eventually they will add the option of total integration in the insert.  Oh, and also mono outputs.   :-)  And while I am whinging, I hate this forum software.  hehe

@DG said:

VE Pro doesn't work like that, and has never worked like that. You have to understand the routing, and then use that knowledge to decide which plugs work well this way, and which don't. For example an EQ wouldn't make any sense at all, but a reverb might.

If you post what plugs you are trying to use, maybe I can give some advice on the best way to achieve your goal.

DG

I understand VE Pro doesn't currently work this way, thus I explained this is a feature request; and to me a vital one for work flow purposes as explained in my original post. I congratulate VSL on getting VE Pro to even work in the first place, however, if we could get the Audio Input to work exactly like Logic's own I/O plugin, in which audio is sent out of the plugin to external gear and then back into the plugin on the same input plugin, this new feature would be KILLER and would become increadibly more useful! You said it yourself DG, using the current method for insert plugins like EQ doesn't make sense, and instead use VE pro for more "aux send" effects like reverb, delay, etc. but EVERY plugin would "make sense" if VE Pro's audio input was able to output its audio back into the channel strip instead of needing a new Aux. 

I hope VSL thinks about it and figures out how to do it. If its possible for Logic to do it with their own I/O plugin, I hope that VSL can figure out a way to do the same. 

 OK, I've been thinking about this and obviously if it is possible to to the route in and out thing, then that might work well for some people. however, there is guarantee that this is even possible, never mind whether or not it would work well enough to be usable. Therefore i think it would be useful to get some ideas of how best to use the current implementation.

I can think of a couple of instances where there would be a fair number of extra tracks needed, but for the most part I think that we just need to think it out a little more clearly.

For example, imagine that I have 10 audio tracks with inserts on them. In theory that means using VE Pro would give me 10 extra tracks, but are all those tracks necessary? Where would those audio tracks have been routed to, if VE pro wasn't in use? If they were going to a group track, then there is no reason why they can't be bussed together in VE Pro and then use the audio return (VSTi Output, AUX) as the group track. This then requires no extra tracks; just a VSTi Output, rather than a Group track.

It would be good if some users who feel that the current system can't be workable could post specific examples, because I'm convinced that in many cases it is actually not a problem.

DG

I have a problem to assign more than 1 Audio input.  I thought I could use an VE Pro server instance as a Reverb FX host and 1 Audio Input is fine but as soon as I assign the second audio input the "reverbs" distorts. Tried all buffers. Both on local host Mac Pro 6 core and network PC Q6600 HP.

Running Pro Tools HD10 with 256 samples buffer - no go

also

Logic 9.1.5 - no go

 Are you using a different Audio Input channel number for each Insert? You can bus them to the Reverb in VE Pro.

DG

Yes, I am using different stereo pairs. I setting up a send and bus in pro Tools and insert the Audio input plugin assign to 1-2.

In VE Pro server I set up a channel input with channel 1-2 and insert a reverb on that channel, routing  to VE master output.

Everything sounds good.

Now I put up another send and bus in Pro tools and choose 3-4 for the audio input plugin. Still fine but when clicking assign, now the mess begins.

The same but even worse when using Logic 9.1.5.

OK, what happens if you create a Bus in VEP, put your insert on that and route audio inputs 1/2 and 3/4 to this bus?

Edit: I've just tried it in Nuendo, and there is no problem. I can't try Pro Tools ATM because I'm working.....! It does sound like you've got a routing problem somewhere though.

DG

No change unfortunately.

Is it only me with this problem ? 

Ok, the solution was to hit PLAY...I was trying out everything with the playback stopped...

As soon as I hit PLAY everything turned to normal. WHOHAA cool feature!

@evan_1347 said:

Ok, the solution was to hit PLAY...I was trying out everything with the playback stopped...

As soon as I hit PLAY everything turned to normal. WHOHAA cool feature!

Glad it's sorted out. As a matter of interest how could you hear it being a mess if you didn't hit play? what were you doing instead? It would be useful to know, in case others have the same problem.  Thanks.

DG

Well I was playing live from my MIDI Keyboard... :D
Putting up two VI´s with different sends and switching back and forth between the two tracks...with the DAW playback stopped...As a matter of fact I have had this problem before with VEP when just jamming around...it is like VEP needs to have s slight push on the playback button sometimes to get all buffers and latencies right... 

Thanks for explaining. Be aware that there is also a small bug with using spacebar to start playback within VE Pro on OSX (Pro Tools). A fix has been promised very soon.

DG

I am using VEP since v4. I use it with Pro Tools 11 now and it is an amazing app and it's integration with DAWs in a production environment is brilliant. I agree that an insert plugin would be awesome. Routing sends and returns froma single plugin would clean up work flow. In the interim, the current implementation does work, albeit a little clumsy. However, this isn't the only device or technology that has a quirk; only this one will be perfect in a future release.

+1 to get the possibility to use inserted "VEP Audio Input" as an real insert.

I am also a VEP4 user and quite new with "Audio Input" function of VEP5.

Another useful option needed (except if I missed it), is an "Thru" button : 

- When I try using VEP as a "big effect rack" (send/return setup) for reverb/delay/moduation etc, I can get audio return using additionnal Aux tracks in Pro Tools but I must mix dry and wet sound inside the VEP mixer.

- Actually audio is correctly sent to the "VEP Audio Input" Plug-in but then is cut/blocked by it on the Audio track (cannot use additionnal insert and sends after the "VEP Audio Input" Plug-in instance).

- it would be better to let the audio go through the plug-in to get the dry sound and return wet only audio through the VEP return Aux.

What do you think of such a feature ?

The audio input is a send to VE Pro as a type of external device. The 'return' is an instrument channel from VE Pro. Is this different for PT? As typically as not, for me the input in VE Pro is assigned to its master bus, for instance the reason to send to VE Pro is for reverb. I don't necessarily create additional [output] channels on the VE Pro side so there aren't necessarily additional 'returns'.

It is not really an insert; it does not effect anything in the DAW host. It is configured in the insert manner, but it is a send to the VE Pro server (if the simplest way is utilized, one channel rather than two with a send level to the second, it is a send at unity gain). I may be just confused myself but this [then is cut/blocked by it on the Audio track (cannot use additionnal insert and sends after the "VEP Audio Input" Plug-in instance)] seems like a confusion of the concept.

IE: these *are* two different things. I don't know what 'blocked' means there. The channel in VE Pro as an effect is not the audio channel. It is conceptually the same as an outboard device in the studio. While it is instantiated as an effect, the effect is in VE Pro. VE Pro is not actually an effect in the DAW. The 'insert' is a connection to a device outside the DAW. It is two things per se.

@demozic said:

the dry sound and return wet only audio through the VEP return Aux.

@civilization 3 said:

I don't know what 'blocked' means there.

But, when you use a send in a DAW, the sent signal is a parallel path alongside the normal audio signal path. Here, the signal on the audio track is muted and there is nothing in the output of the audio track.

Also, I am using Pro Tools while you're using Cubase. Pro Tools handle objects in a different manner. A instrument plug-in is a insert plug-in like FX and so on. You can insert an instrument on any kind of track ie : Audio, Instrument, Aux (except MIDI tracks). So here, I am using a VEP plug-in instance as a FX on an Aux tracks to get FX return from one dedicated VEP mixer. So it is possible to use the mixer of VEP to make a wet/dry mix.

Anyway, I try to make a scheme so that you can understand things better : 

Normal send/return setup :

Audio track (= audio file or input signal) ---> inserts ---->   sends                                 ---> Track output (dry signal)

                                                                                                       L---> sent signal ---> FX ---> Aux track (Return / Wet signal)   

VEP send/return setup :

** What I get with Pro Tools 11 **

Audio track (= audio file or input signal) ---> inserts [VEP Audio Input]  -X-> sends (no signal)   ---> Track output (no signal) 

                                                                                              L> sent signal ---> VEP mixer (FX) ---> Aux track [VEP Instrument] (Return Dry/Wet signal)

( X  = blocked/muted )

** What I would expect with a "thru" option **

Audio track (= audio file or input signal) ---> inserts [VEP Audio Input] ---->   sends          ---> Track output (Dry signal)

                                                                                              L> sent signal ---> VEP mixer (FX) ---> Aux track [VEP Instrument] (Return / Wet signal)

Another option is to use "normal" send / return setup of the DAW and insert "VEP Audio Input" on an Aux track (here on Pro Tools I would insert "VEP Audio Input" on a Master track) : 

Audio track  ---> inserts ---->   sends                                                                                                                    ---> Track output (dry signal)

                                                          L--> Bus1-2 --> Master Bus1-2 [VEP Audio Input] --> VEP mixer (FX) ---> Aux [VEP Instr] (Return / Wet signal)

(Note : Master Fader track prevent from using 2 busses instead of 1)

In this case, it works fine, except when using Offline Bounce* while Online Bounce works fine.

*(I get a blank audio file, still because of a kind of blockus in signal path. But I will create another thread for that after doing further testing, and see if it is a Pro Tools only issue).

VE Pro Audio Input is what it is. So in PT, it's named differently than it is in Cubase? VE Pro is not an FX in a DAW. It is not a real insert. Audio Input is set up that way in order to achieve the send.

"the sent signal is a parallel path alongside the normal audio signal path. Here, the signal on the audio track is muted and there is nothing in the output of the audio track."  I don't get what you think is supposed to happen there. Are you saying it looks like something has muted it rather than you muting it? If so, that should not happen. It looks like you said you are trying to use VEP itself, rather than VEP Audio Input, as a send (because of the way PT looks at things), a misunderstanding. It is an instrument plug in unless you use Audio Input. You have to send midi to an instrument to have any audio from it, like any vi. If you think VEP per se is going to work as a AUX FX Send, that's mistaken. Audio Input was developed in order to accomplish this.

@demozic said:

** What I would expect with a "thru" option **

Audio track (= audio file or input signal) ---> inserts [VEP Audio Input] ---->   sends          ---> Track output (Dry signal)

                                                                                              L> sent signal ---> VEP mixer (FX) ---> Aux track [VEP Instrument] (Return / Wet signal)

@Another User said:

it's just organized and named differently for PT