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  3. Moving from Gigastudio to Vienna Ens Pro

  • Moving from Gigastudio to Vienna Ens Pro

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    Hi,
    My Tascam Gigastudio (running Orch Cube Pro Ed. & Perf Set from 2003) works ok but I know it won't last forever. It has its own Giga PC, which is triggered by the Master PC (Cubase) via midi 4x4. The audio comes out of the Giga PC and into my O2R96 via ADAT. I play on the master keyboard, midi info goes to the Gigastudio, and sound comes out of the O2R96.
    How do I make the jump to something like this?

    1. Can I move over to Mac? I'm looking at 27-inch: 2.7GHz iMac, 2.7GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5, 2560 x 1440 resolution, 4GB (two 2GB) memory, 1TB hard drive, AMD Radeon HD 6770M with 512MB.

    2. I know I'll need to buy new samples, so I'm looking to start with the complete Orch strings Bundle (with Vienna ens. included free). Should I upgrade to Vienna Ens Pro?

    3. How does my Cubase PC comunicate with the new Mac? Midi?

    4. How does the Mac sound communicate with my O2R96? Adat?

    Keen to upgrade my VSL equipment, but getting the right hardware is key I feel.

    Thanks,
    Neil
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    1. Why would you want to use an iMac as a slave? By their very nature slaves do most of the work unseen, and a PC will perform much better for this task. Also an iMac comes with a screen, which you don't need. Just connect via network and use Remote Desktop.
    2. You can always upgrade to VIP after the fact. get used to the basic player first.
    3. I would recommend VE Pro, but that will depend on a few things.
    4. How do you get the sound back to the DAW currently?

    DG
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     Thanks. As I thought, there is more to this than meets the eye...
    1. My 2nd PC (Carillon Core I) runs Gigastudio. Could it simply run Vienna Ens Pro? The PC is actually ok (I just like the look of the iMac!)
    2. Basic player - VIP? Please clarify?
    3. DAW:all my instruments (external hardware, Gigastudio, TCElectronics Reverb 2000, etc) are plumbed into my O2R96 - by 1/4 inch jack cables, digital cables or ADAT. I then send the final mix to my DAT recorder.

    Make any sense?
    Neil
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    1. Yes. That's is your first port of call before you start buying new machines, IMO. See what you can get out of it, and then you know what to buy.
    2. Vienna Instruments comes with a basic player. VIP is Vienna Instrument Pro.
    3. OK, so if you are using an external DAT recorder, Vienna Ensemble pro (VEP) is slightly less use to you. Is there any reason that you don't return the audio to Cubase and record there? BTW, I didn't know anyone used DAT any more. [;)]

    Please keep this discussion going, because there more questions that you answer, the nearer we can get to the optimum solution for you.

    DG 
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    Very interesting - what does DG stand for? David? I've thought about recording straight back into Cubase - must try it!!

    The underlying issue is that my studio was very carefully rebuilt and configured in 2004 (Carillon PCs etc), and since then I haven't touched any settings - only used it to write music (the equipment has worked and not distracted me from writing). I use Windows XP, Cubase SX2.2, Gigastudio.
    BUT, I now need to learn more about how equipment has developed from 2004 - 2011 in order to work out how to develop the studio next. Using the Orch Cube by switch keys etc is probably out of date and time consuming now? But I do love the performance sets, alternation tools, portamento strings etc. I even have complex giga templates with all the panning and reverbs tweaked for 'virtual stage placement'.

    Are you suggesting that I could simply buy and load the Orchestral Strings Bundle and the basic player into my Carillon Core 1 (P4 2.8ghz, 2gb RAM)? Would it not knock the configuration of the Gigatstudio?? Or rather just be another programme that is available rather like having word and cubase on the same PC??
    Cheers,
    Neil
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     OK, that PC is very likely to fall over very soon, as Vienna Instruments offer so many more possibilities and temptations, that you will run out of power and RAM almost immediately, I think.

    Keyswitches are still very much used by some people, but with the latest Cubase it is possible to set all of this using VST Expression. I don't use this, as my set-up is too complicated for it to deal with. [:D]

    The Performance sets are now irrelevant, as everything is done without any extra Performance Tools.

    However, I converted my Giga machines to Vienna machines (before I decided to do away with slaves altogether) by removing the registry tweaks, setting the /3gig switch and raising the RAM to 4GB. I would recommend using anything other than Giga on a PC that has Giga installed.

    Before I start to make any more recommendations, may I ask one more thing; do you like to play things in, or are you a mouser?

    DG
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     I'm hoping the PCs (both of them) will be ok until I upgrade - they seem stable... Do you agree they'll last until I start experimenting with them?

    You say: 'I would recommend using anything other than Giga on a PC that has Giga installed.'  But do you mean 'I would NOT recommend...'?

    I play as much as I need to (I am a pro keyboard player), then do loads of editing. I like to record the midi controllers in real time. The other issue is that my 'mother PC running Cubase' is getting old too!! (P4 1.7ghz, 1mb RAM). Hard disks getting full. I shouold probably replace this... and maybe incorporate Vienna instruments on the upgrade as a VST plug in?

    So many options! Most of which are expensive!! Careful investment needed.... and this community area is key.
    Best regards, Neil

    ps have you heard of Carillon Music PCs?
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     Sorry yes I meant wouldn't...

    So, as someone with performing chops, you need as low latency as possible. Obviously there is an optimum way for you to work, but as you point out, it will mean spending a lot of money all at once. I would therefore recommend the following:

    1. Stick with current PC for Cubase.
    2. Clean out the slave OS and registry and add more RAM (that should be relatively cheap). Obviously when you get a new PC this will have been wasted money, but hopefully not that much.
    3. Run Vienna Instruments on the slave via either VE Pro (connected via a network cable) or your usual way, using Vienna Ensemble as a host on the slave.

    As to a long term solution you should be able to figure out exactly how much power you really need, once you have Vienna Instruments up and running. If it is reasonable (not ridiculous, like mine...!) then I would recommend replacing your 2 PCs with one new one, and running everything from that. Not only will you get great performance, but you won't need to use your DAT recorder in order to reduce latency.

    As to your PS, I used to have 4 Carrillons

    DG
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    One of the key questions to answer is simply what do you intend to do?  Modest needs do not require near the power of someone using monster templates. 

    Power users, such as DG, do end up needing as much power/performance as they can afford.  Others of us do not have quite that level of need.

    Some general guidelines regarding power (some of which will not apply to you):

    For running the four SE libraries: all patches can be opened with 8 gigs of ram, and a Q9550 processor will do quite fine.

    For MIR SE (my current experience), and using primarily full libraries: an i7 930 and 24 gigs of ram has been working well (12 gigs will work, but templates will be more restricted).  Note that all forms of MIR currently require a 64 bit o/s.

    For massive templates: much more power along the lines of DG, or at least a 6 core i7 980.

    Nothing will be lost by seeing how far you get using the equipment that you have.  We sometimes tend to buy things thinking that we will need them, and end up spending money on things we end up not needing.  With the costs involved, it really makes sense to try to figure out in advance what your actual needs will be.  Better to spend one's money on actual needs rather than on hypothetical ones.

    Also, one upcoming change: when the software updates are released, particularly if one has an SSD for samples, buffer sizes can be controlled.  It is probable that less ram will be required as the size of the buffers could be reduced.
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    Thanks DG. That makes a lot of sense. A few more queries:

    1. Will the Vienna Ensemble player utilise my existing 4x4 midi (so that Cubase can trigger it)?

    2. what sort of PC would be capable of running the whole lot? That sounds v exciting!

    3. an issue for me is that my current Giga system has 230gb of orchestral instruments loaded, giving me the whole orchestra. Might I lose many instruments in the early months of experiemtns due to memory restrictions?

    Best, Neil
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     Thanks Noldar12 - always good to get another perspective. What is a Q9550 processor and where do you get them? My PC has 2gb of RAM - even at 4gb it looks like I might be struggling?

    I agree with experimenting rather than just spending! [:|] But I'm frightened the upgrade will increase the quality but leave me with less than half an orchestra! BTW, I write soundtracks for BBC Docs. (What do you do?)

    Best, Neil
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    @Neil C said:

    Thanks DG. That makes a lot of sense. A few more queries:

    1. Will the Vienna Ensemble player utilise my existing 4x4 midi (so that Cubase can trigger it)?

    2. what sort of PC would be capable of running the whole lot? That sounds v exciting!

    3. an issue for me is that my current Giga system has 230gb of orchestral instruments loaded, giving me the whole orchestra. Might I lose many instruments in the early months of experiemtns due to memory restrictions?

    Best, Neil

     

    1. Sorry, I don't understand the question.
    2. There are many different possibilities. It all depends on your needs (look at my sig for what I find acceptable).
    3. Oh no it doesn't....! Gigastudio is limited to around 1Gb memory. The rest is streamed from hard drives. Therefore moving to a more modern system will give you at least twice as many instruments loaded, and given that the Vienna player is way more memory efficient than Gigastudio, you should feel like a pig in sh*t. [;)]

    DG
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     Thanks DG.

    1. my first question referes to how my master PC (Cubase) syncs via midi to my slave Giga PC (to become updated). Currently I use midi (Midisport 4x4) - giving 4 x 16 midi channels. How does the Vienna Ensemble player cope with midi?

    2. who manufactures your PC? The power needed seems huge even compared to Carillon or PC World UK.

    Cheers, Neil
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    @Neil C said:

     Thanks DG.

    1. my first question referes to how my master PC (Cubase) syncs via midi to my slave Giga PC (to become updated). Currently I use midi (Midisport 4x4) - giving 4 x 16 midi channels. How does the Vienna Ensemble player cope with midi?

    2. who manufactures your PC? The power needed seems huge even compared to Carillon or PC World UK.

    Cheers, Neil

     

    1. Ah, well in your set-up I would use MOL or IP MIDI. if you decide to go down the  VE Pro route, then all of it is done via Ethernet. Of course there is nothing to stop you using your Midisport to send MIDI, just as you do now. One thing about Midisport; should you get a new computer, don't bank on it ever working again. It all depends on now old it is.
    2. http://www.directresolutions.co.uk/

    DG
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     Midi - ah yes. I can see my little midisport exploding! Meaning possible software upgrades on the master PC (Cubase). So, linking my Cubase SX2 / WinXP (built 2004) via midi with the standard Vienna Ensemble seems an issue.
    DARC look amazing! Although Carillon seem to have reappeared again, these guys seem to be producing an awesome VSL solution. Thanks.

    Neil
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    DG - just noticed Carillon Audio and Directresolution have the same postal address in London! One company producing two (or more) brands?

    Neil