VSL have to find a solution so that they can de-activate a stolen USB key.

Legaly, a déclaration of lost at the police should make it

VSL could then send another key with a list of new serial number and just charge for it

This is why I’ve stopped buying VSL products. I’ve already purchased $2,000 worth of their software, but because of the risk involved I can’t justify buying anymore. I’m at a point now where I can afford to buy the cube (standard) and a few beefy PCs to run it on for a small ensemble of MIDI musicians to play live, using software I’ve written in Max. But the risk of losing the dongles is way too high so I’m researching other companies’ products.

I spend several thousand dollars a year on music software and hardware, and VSL is losing a lot of money from me, and until they implement a “phone home” type of authorization they won’t be getting anymore of my money.

Two years ago I lost my dongle while moving which had the licenses for SE and SE extended. I bought a new dongle and emailed VSL telling them I’d lost my dongle and how can I reactivate my software. They told me all they could do is sell me new licenses for $500! I’d like to know where in my license agreement it mentions a 50% charge to replace a lost or stolen license. Luckily I found my dongle after several days of searching and after that I’ve never taken the dongle out of my home. Even though the reason I bought the SE was to use at school.

VSL makes great products but, with the possible exception of Sony, I’ve never dealt with a company that treats its customer so abusively and with out right contempt.

Yes VSL does need to have a copy protection system in place, but one that doesn’t penalize their own costumers. If they implemented a "phone home" type system I could easily spend $10k plus on their products over the next few years, but untill then no dice.

@Cyril said:

VSL have to find a solution so that they can de-activate a stolen USB key.

Legaly, a déclaration of lost at the police should make it

VSL could then send another key with a list of new serial number and just charge for it

Cyril, VSL would still have to charge something, unless Steinberg changes its policy of charging a fee to provide duplicate licenses.

DG

@DG said:

Cyril, VSL would still have to charge something, unless Steinberg changes its policy of charging a fee to provide duplicate licenses.

DG

They will of course charge the dongle

It should not be a big deal to write a little program that will look of what is owning the user and to re-generate a new license number

@DG said:

Cyril, VSL would still have to charge something, unless Steinberg changes its policy of charging a fee to provide duplicate licenses.

DG

They will of course charge the dongle

It should not be a big deal to write a little program that will look of what is owning the user and to re-generate a new license number

No, you mis-understand. Steinberg charges for every licence it generates. That has nothing to do with the cost of the physical dongle.

DG

The fact that Vienna's license agreement is a) unfair but even worse b) lacking essential information concerning the licensing system is, unfortunately, a very old story. Furthermore it is honestly a mess. Just consider that until approx one year ago, the sentence "Lost or stolen Licenses cannot be replaced free of charge by Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH" did not exist at all. They have added it after I asked them to point out where it was stated that I had to pay again for the licenses after loosing the key (I still have the email :-). Before (everyone who bought an older version of the products can check the printed agreement) there was not mention to this problem at all. The only solution, for me, is not to buy anything until they improve the licensing system.

DG: how much does Steinberg charge for each license?

Btw why has this thread been moved to "General and Hardware Discussion"? what kind of section is that? "General and fish and chips"?

Wow, this is all pretty scary.  I don't think I want to buy any more dongle protected software or libraries (from any company, not just VSL).  I wonder if VSL will let me sell my current licenses.  I'm sure my handful of licenses don't amount to much in their eyes, but it took me quite a while to save up for them.  It would be nice to be able to recoup some of that.

I'm so paranoid after reading all this.  I could lose almost 2 months' salary in the blink of an eye due to the loss of that little piece of plastic.  I'm not positive, but I don't think my insurance company would cover non-physical items.  I'm still confused as to whether or not the licenses attached to the key are considered physical or not.  If not, then it would seem that they could be replaced for a minimal processing fee (to cover steiney's fee).  If so, then it seems that you could sell your license(s) like any other physical item.

Great arguments, btw, I am impressed that you kept everything so civil as it started to look like it was getting heated.

@Another User said:

I'm not positive, but I don't think my insurance company would cover non-physical items.

I recently changed my insurance, and checked. Not only were they prepared to cover the licenses, but they did it within my standard cover, so there was no impact on the premiums. On the other hand my dongles never leave the house - I can imagine it's much harder to get cover for hauling them around.

I would be fun and useful to ask some expert about these issues, and also about the complete lack of information surrounding the Vienna Key. Who could we ask, is there any association or specialized website?

@Pingu said:

VSL will, of course, say no, you may not sell your licenses.

Oh no they won't.  [:P]

Just contact support and ask them.

DG

@clruwe said:

I agree, but if it's not VSL or EWQL then what? I've done a lot of research and I cannot find any non-dongle alternatives... We just need to convince VSL to change.

To change to what?

DG

I am afraid we cannot convince Vienna to change policy, they would have done already otherwise. But we have the right to ask for clear policies:

- what is a user supposed to pay in case of damaged/broken key

- what is a user supposed to pay in case of stolen/lost key

- that it is impossible to de-activate keys

- that it is not possible to backup licenses

All this should be told clearly to costumers BEFORE purchase and BEFORE any problem occurrs.

Maybe we can ask to the European Consumer Centers. Also, we can try to spread the info: these are information that the costumer has the right to know.

@clruwe said:

I agree, but if it's not VSL or EWQL then what? I've done a lot of research and I cannot find any non-dongle alternatives... We just need to convince VSL to change.

To change to what?

DG

@cesare.magri said:

I am afraid we cannot convince Vienna to change policy, they would have done already otherwise. But we have the right to ask for clear policies:

- what is a user supposed to pay in case of damaged/broken key

- what is a user supposed to pay in case of stolen/lost key

- that it is impossible to de-activate keys

- that it is not possible to backup licenses

All this should be told clearly to costumers BEFORE purchase and BEFORE any problem occurrs.

Maybe we can ask to the European Consumer Centers. Also, we can try to spread the info: these are information that the costumer has the right to know.