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  4. Tenor Sax Questions

  • Tenor Sax Questions

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    Just got Tenor Sax as my September Freebie. WOOHOO! So far, very impressed. Frankly, I wasn't expecting much... Other sampled saxes I've heard have sounded pretty synth-cheese. The most I could hope for was 'college concert band for white people.' (Sorrrrrrry, but you -know- you've had the same thoughts.) But ya know? It actually can make some sounds with some -soul-.

    But I have a couple of challenges...

    1. I can't quite get a handle on the necessary keyswitches and MIDI to make really smooth expressive lines. I was hoping someone had some sample MIDI--like Guy Bacos 'City Noir' demo. (I posted over in Orchestration and haven't heard back yet.) Anyone?

    2. I'm a -little- disappointed that there doesn't seem to be another octave on top.I understand that those notes are not used in the classical repertoire and yeah, it's Vienna SYMPHONIC Library. But the lib is -so- close to being jazz ready.... or at least 'Third Stream Gunther Schuller ready'. :D I humbly suggest/hope that VSL adds an Extension-Extender to the lib.

    Thanks,

    --JC
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    Regarding point 2:

    Actually, it’s the classical saxophone repertoire that consistently calls for the high notes above the written high f#. You rarely will find notes above the regular range in any jazz chart. They are excessively used in solos though, but in most cases with some kind of expressive modulation, such as starting with the plain tone and then fading in some multiphonics - which could hardly be done in a sample library - if it was, a big run for being the first to use it in a production would start - after that happened, this sample would be of no practical use (everybody would instantly recognise it).

    However, in the world of the classical saxophone the high register is treated rather as a natural expansion of the instrument's range and hence there is a clear idea how a saxophone should sound up there. So for a classical-orientated library as VSL it would be logical to include the altissimo register of those instruments.
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    OK. Well... questions of 'taste' aside, any thoughts on the MIDI to do -anything- expressive? I'm struggling to figure out how Guy did the Noir City demo. .

    Paging Guy Noire :D

    (If you aren't from the Twin Cities, that probably won't make much sense.)

    ---JC
  • G
    G

    Hi Suntower,

    Didn't mean to neglect your question, sorry. I'm a bit swamped at the moment, but I promise as soon as I get a chance I'll open the file and see what I did, and let you know.

    Guy
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    THANKS!

    No rush... I got plenty of stuff to work on in the meantime.

    But when you get a moment, I will be REALLY grateful! As I have been floundering trying to get anything vaguely realistic happening.

    Frankly, I would -not- have chosen Tenor Sax for my 'freebie' if not for you... But... No pressure. ;)

    Best,

    ---JC
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    last edited
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    @Another User said:

    2. I'm a -little- disappointed that there doesn't seem to be another octave on top.I understand that those notes are not used in the classical repertoire and yeah, it's Vienna SYMPHONIC Library. But the lib is -so- close to being jazz ready.... or at least 'Third Stream Gunther Schuller ready'. 😄 I humbly suggest/hope that VSL adds an Extension-Extender to the lib.

    Well, you could always use pitch bend and I think that will get you a fifth above the highest note sampled?  Or maybe it's just a third I can't remember.

    "Good Luck, We're all counting on you."
  • G
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    Hi JC,

    Okay I've finally got around to opening this file. It's always trickier with older files, and this is no exception, I had to reload the patches, but because my "download libraries" seemed to have vanished from my vi,  I couldn't play it, however since I still had the names of each patch I manage to reload the exact same patches but from the full lib. I could probably find the download lib and reinstall it, but that might be a bit of work, and hopefully I can answer your question without it. It would only make a difference if you want the midi file, my patches loaded from the full lib, but if you see their names you could replace them from the download lib you have. Well, I'm assuming it's the download lib you have.

    So if you want the midi file of the tenor sax part I can send it. I'm looking at the part right now, and there is really nothing special, I think what seems to make the difference in the interpretation, dynamics, flow, timed with the chosen patches, and don't be scared to use any of the patches for any type of articulation, what I mean is, in some patches you may have a really cool and smooth attack, you can use that attack to play a series of fast notes like if the sax is more sliding from one note to the next, if you have too many notes articulated, you start to loose the dirtier side of the sax people like, well at least for certain styles. So in essence, you have a new patch.  In this piece I see I used a lot of different patches, so that's another thing to not be afraid of doing. I'm not sure how I can help more though. If you have any specific questions or about a specific passage you'd want to know more about, I'll be glad to answer them.

    Guy
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    Thanks Guy... please -do- send me the MIDI... I dunno how... as I can't figure out the PM thing... but I'm sure you're a pro at this.

    I do have the download lib... std and extended.

    I'm very sorry you had so much trouble loading the project. I don't understand how one loses one's download libraries (and I hope I don't find out!) But I have complete sympathy with trying to load 'old' projects. For one reason or another, any project I try to load that's more than a year old -will- be fraught. It seems like all this stuff is so delicate---change any bit of hardware or software or 'upgrade' and yer asking for trouble! I feel bad putting you out.

    The reason I want the MIDI is because, frankly, I haven't yet figured out the basic -mechanics- of what I would call 'patch switching' in VSL. Perhaps your demo is, to you 'nothing special', but my hope is that it will have massive pedagogic value for -me in figuring out VSL. I dunno what it is, but there is something about the 'matrices/cells/patches' thing that I'm finding very non-intuitive... it's not a gripe with the product... I'm sure it's just me.  (I have a similar mnd problem with RME's 'TotalMix'... amazingly powerful, but I -always- get confused with it.)

    Anyhoo, I appreciate the help a lot. If Paypal figures out how to send drinks through the internet, the next 2 rounds are on me.

    ---JC.
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    You'll have to give me your email address as I can't upload files here. I will send you the tenor fxp file which will give you the patches I used, and the midi file of the sax line.
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    The good news is, I still have the data patches associated with the download lib, so that should work out good for you now, I'll send the that fxp file.
  • S
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    Sent you PM. Thanks. ---JC