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  4. Appassionata vs Orchestral Strings

  • Appassionata vs Orchestral Strings

    M
    M
    Hello, Can you explain me, what's diference in sound of Appassionata and Orchestral Strings, please? I own the Orchestral Strings I with the Extension library. This sounds me very close (like close mics) on demo songs on vsl web too. If I'm listening demos of Appassionata on vsl web, it sounds me like distance mics (and bigger sections, of course). Is this (the distance) possible? Or is this just using the right Reverb in the demo songs? Which Strings are you using, Appassionata or Orchestral, and why? Thanks a lot, Best regards, Martin
  • N
    N

     MAJ, I've made a few comments in the other thread where you also posted your questions.
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB
    last edited
    last edited

    @MAJ said:

    Hello, Can you explain me, what's diference in sound of Appassionata and Orchestral Strings, please? I own the Orchestral Strings I with the Extension library. This sounds me very close (like close mics) on demo songs on vsl web too....

    This and other forums are full of explanations.Sometimes it would be better to offer examples...

    In this case I can offer two sound demos for comparing the sounds of all VSL-strings

    Go to http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/demos/index.php

    1. Choose "Music B. Kaufmann" and select "Irish Strings VI08"

    • 00:00 - 00:49 Solostrings (Viola starts with the melody)
    • 00:50 - 01:33 Chamberstrings (Viola again..)
    • 01:34 - 02:19 Orchestra Strings
    • 02:20 - 02:50 Appassionat Strings
    • 02:51 - End mixed Strings

    I used the same articulations for all strings, the same reverb, no EQs, I just panned them a bit to right and left...

    Funny to see how agil the Appassionats can play the pattern...

    2. Choose "Various Composers" and the "BK_BWV_622_Oh_Mensch_bewein..."

    • 00:00 - 01:09 Solo Viola
    • 01:10 - 02:18 Solo Strings
    • 02:18 - 03:02 Chamberstrings
    • 03:03 - 03:44 Orchestra Strings
    • 03:45 - 04:33 Appassionat Strings (Orchestra Ctr Basses as well (a bit enhanced and fited to the Appassionata sound))

    For all strings: I used the same Reverb, no EQs, Panning yes  (individual)

    BTW, I often mix the Strings: 

    • App + Orch 
    • App + Chamber 
    • Sometimes I also add the Solo Strings with the Apps

    So maybe the title here should be: Appassionata and Orchestra Strings?

    Have fun

    Beat Kaufmann

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • M
    M
    Hello guys, Thanks a lot for this, it's really helpfull to me! All the best Martin
  • M
    M
    I have one more question, Beat,

    Why are you layering the Strings: App + Orch for example? You make even begger setup this way? Why, App is not big enough for you?

    Thanks a lot! Martin
  • E
    E
    last edited
    last edited

    Hi,

    This might be interesting for you: a comparison of a.o. App and Orch VSL. This was used before somewhere on this forum, but I can't find the thread anymore.

    Best,

    Erik
  • G
    G
    last edited
    last edited

    @Beat Kaufmann said:

    In this case I can offer two sound demos for comparing the sounds of all VSL-strings

     Go to http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/demos/index.php

    1. Choose "Music B. Kaufmann" and select "Irish Strings VI08"

    • 00:00 - 00:49 Solostrings (Viola starts with the melody)
    • 00:50 - 01:33 Chamberstrings (Viola again..)
    • 01:34 - 02:19 Orchestra Strings
    • 02:20 - 02:50 Appassionat Strings
    • 02:51 - End mixed Strings

    I used the same articulations for all strings, the same reverb, no EQs, I just panned them a bit to right and left...

    Funny to see how agil the Appassionats can play the pattern... 

    Beat Kaufmann

     

    Maybe just me, but leaving articulations and playing style aside for a moment, I personally heard the Appassionata section sound a bit duller, which was exactly the opposite I was expecting.
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB
    last edited
    last edited

    @Gusfmm said:

    Maybe just me, but leaving articulations and playing style aside for a moment, I personally heard the Appassionata section sound a bit duller, which was exactly the opposite I was expecting.

    Hello Gusfmm

    Keep in mind that the Appassionatas come with 20 Violins. So for recording them the microphones have been farther away than those of the chamber strings. You can explain this difference with "duller", "roomy, spacy, more distant,... beside another sound - coming from the 20 Violins.

    Nevertheless, the appassionatas can sound shiny as well in the upper register...

    For that I recommend to listen to the Air of Bach at

    http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/inspir/index.php  (Demo 2) Sidebar.

    00:00 - 01:42 Chamberstrings II

    01:43 - 03:25 Appassionatas

    Beat

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB
    last edited
    last edited

    @MAJ said:

    I have one more question, Beat,

    Why are you layering the Strings: App + Orch for example? You make even begger setup this way? Why, App is not big enough for you?

    Thanks a lot! 

    Martin

    Martin, I thought that here a demo is best as well. So please listen to the example and read the added text here:

    http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/vi-tips--tricks-4/index.php (No 29.)

    Of course id depends on the balance you choose between all the libraries.

    Even if I added the Solos and the Chambers in a moderate ratio I'm sure you canl make out a difference.

    Please also compare the sequence 00:35 - 00:38 with the faster legatos. Which version does sound closer to the reality?

    Have fun

    Beat

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    Hello Beat

    Do you use the same reverb settings for the whole piece ?

    Best

    Cyril
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB
    last edited
    last edited

    @Cyril said:

    Hello Beat

    Do you use the same reverb settings for the whole piece ?

    Best

    Cyril

    Yes - all the strings through the same "depth".

    Beat

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • M
    M
    This is very helpful, great, thanks! The Orchestral Strings sounds the best to me. :-) Better result is to use division technique, for me, than using Appassionate, I think. And I can save the money, and buy Percussions. :-) I'm thinking about the ratio of Strings and other VSL instruments. For example, if I use Chamber Strings and WoodWinds I/II or Brass I/II, I'm afraid of balance of instruments count. It has to sounds different, if I use Chamber Strings with WoodWind section or Appassionata Strings with the same WoodWind section, isn't it? It will sounds too "Stringy" or "Windy", or not? BestMartin
  • N
    N
    Hey, just wanted to tell you that I love the content on your website! Do you use Sibelius or any notation software to write you demos or just cubase ?
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB
    last edited
    last edited

    @Nick_E said:

    Hey, just wanted to tell you that I love the content on your website! Do you use Sibelius or any notation software to write you demos or just cubase ?

    Hello Nick

    I'm not sure, but if you are asking me:

    1. Yes, I'm using just Cubase.

    2. Thanks for your compliment

    All the best

    Beat

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/