Question... I have the full version of Kontakt 4, which has almost 17GB of samples from Vienna Symphonic Library. I also have Apple's Symphony Orchestra Jam Pack and Logic 9 Pro, which also have some gigabytes of of VSL samples I believe.
I know that the full versions of these instruments will have about 4 times as much samples but I would like to expand the sounds instead of getting a higher quality of what I already have for now. I don't have flautando, con sordino, sul ponticello, legno, a lot of percussion, a full contrabassoon, a full bass clarinet, mute trumpets, mute horns, trombone, horn, clarinet & timpani glissandi, bowed marimba, xylophone & vibraphone etc.
What is the best way?
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how to avoid paying for the same thing?
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You could buy the Brass II and Woodwinds II DVD Collections. They contain many of the instruments which go beyond the standard Orchestra lineup, like contrabassoon, bass clarinet etc.
Another way would be to buy exactly the instruments you need as single Download-Instruments. To extend the string techniques, you COULD consider to buy ONLY the SE+ Strings, but it is recommended to have the SE (without+). Programming then would be quite awkward, because you would for example need one instance of K4 for the regular articulations, and one instance of VI for the additional stuff. You can’t load VSL patches into Kontakt and vice versa.
Anyway, you should be aware, that so your „extra instruments“ will be much more elaborate than your standard instruments.
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I find the library structure very confusing. I have Special Edition and Special Edition+. Are you saying that if I bought, for example, the Solo Violin library, I would have better quality samples for the same articulations I already have? In other words, is a legato solo violin from the full library going to sound significantly better than the one in Special Ed/Special Ed+? Even the retailers who sell the products don't understand and can't advise me.
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The legato from the full library does not sound better, as it contains the same samples as the SE, but:
1: In SE you only got legato and portamento (leg.sus uses the same samples as legato), and there are exactly two samples from each note to another (one mezzopiano and one mezzoforte). In some cases the legato transition is VERY characteristic (for ex. an audible key click noises in wind patches, portamento-like transitions in the strings). If the same combination of two notes occurs more than one time in a piece, then you will always hear this prominent sound.
The Full library offers a fast legato, zigane-style portamento, legato sul (on one string), and of course the perf_trill, so you can always choose from several similar sounding alternatives to create little differences
2. You probably know, that the Full library is chromatically sampled, you get samples for every note, while the SE only gives you every second note, the semitones inbetween are produced by playing the samples faster. This is not audible for a single note, but when you alternate between two notes which use the same sample, in some cases this can be noticable.
3. Some articulations offer more velocity layers in the full libs.
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MassMover, would you please explain more?@MassMover said:
while the SE only gives you every second note, the semitones inbetween are produced by playing the samples faster. This is not audible for a single note, but when you alternate between two notes which use the same sample, in some cases this can be noticable.
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What should I explain more? It's just as I said: you get - say, for the solo violin sfz articulation - a sample for g, one for a, for b, for c#, d# f and so on. The half-steps g#, a#, c, d, e and f# are produced by using the sample a semitone below. So, if you play "a" followed by "a#", those two notes will use the same basic sample. If this sample has a very characteristic sound, for example because the player hit the string in a harsh way, so that more upper harmonics than usual are heard, then you will hear this characteristic sound on both notes, which will not happen in the DVD Library, as there would be a different sample for a#
Hope this helps ...
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what you wrote is just what i needed to know and be explained. thank you@MassMover said:
What should I explain more?
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MassMover, Thank you for the reply. I understand the awkwardness but there is no budget like that :) I would also need another computer or 2 to use an orchestra with that many samples, combining Kontakt and VI would be the way right now. Brass II (395) has no glissandi and no mute trumpets. Brass I Full does, but is €860. Looks like the only other way is solo instruments indeed, between 115 and 170 per full instrument. Woodwind II (375) has normal instruments I already have. Woodwinds SE also has the bass clarinet and contrabassoon for 75. And strings+ has quite a lot of options for 165. But percussion... the SE pack is not interesting. Will there be a percussion SE+ pack you think? or single percussion instruments? Full percussion is 740, that's too much, unless I get some nice assignments.
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bhartmann: I partly agree.
You have Orchestral Strings, Chamber Strings and Solo Strings, so strings are definitely the LEAST LIMITED set. Everything you could do with the Appassionata Strings could basically be done with the SE Orchestral Strings as well. The Appassionatas on the other hand are the "most complete" DVD collection in their own - the Full library contains a full String orchestra with all articulations you need for mainstream movie soundtracks, while Orchestral Strings are split in I+II, the Woodwinds and Brass also.
So, if you are in need of a large epic hollywood sound, the appassionatas are a good choice.
Do you have the SE in standard or extended? If not, this would be worth consideration.
Nielsdolieslager: You really should try out the Vienna Instruments in general before deciding. The most big stores (musicstore in cologne for instance) can arrange to have at least the special edition installed on a test-machine, and if you ask in advance, they give you some time to experiment.
You really should not consider to share instrumental parts between different software players, like sustained notes from Kontakt and pizzicati from VI. It's a different thing to do - say - the whole string section with one library, and the solo oboe with another though.
What you definitely do not have in your K4 collection, nor in the Logic Jam Pack are the VSL legato-patches, and they are the thing that makes the whole collection shine.
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Thanks, massmover. Interestingly, Sweetwater seems to sell three Appassionata collections (I, II, and II Extended) which really adds to my confusion. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=Appassionata+Strings+2&go=Search So, would I give me 95% of what I need? I really wish Vienna would publish some detailed guidance for buyers. I always feel that I am missing something or buying duplicates. In answer to your question, my DVD boxes say SE and SE+: I don't see "Extended" on the box.
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There is no "extended" label on any box. If the term confuses you, you probably only have the standard library. The extension of any library - normally - gives you more articulations of the instruments you already have in the standard library. For instance, in the solo strings standard you have only sustain with vibrato, the extension gives you in addition: sus w/o vib, with progressive and with fading vib.
In the Special edition it’s not more articulations, but additional Instruments, like the chamber strings.
Due to the compresion-algorithms the extension is ALWAYS installed together with the standard lib, AND you instantly get a demo-licence for the extension, so you can see and use ALL instruments of the SE ext. in the beginning, but after a while (depends on how often you use them) they disappear (although they are still physically stored to your HD. You can see a small "l2" (Level2) sign next to the extended patches, and you see a "+" sign next to matrices which use l2-articulations.
Or: if you spent around 330 EUR for the SE you only got Std., if you paid around 720EUR you also have the ext. patches (just SE, the same prices go for SE+)
You don’t buy the extension physically (as they are already on your HD), but you buy an activation code for you eLicencer.
Of course the Appassionatas have a std. and a ext. lib as well. You can buy them from some sellers as "bundle", but it’s just like buying std. and ext. at the same time.
App I are regular played strings, App II are played muted (con sordino).
I STRONGLY advise you to go to the descriptions of the libraries here on this site, by clicking on "sample content" you can clearly see, which samples you get in the standard library and which you get additionally by buying the extended library on top.
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@MassMover said:
Do you have the SE in standard or extended? If not, this would be worth consideration.
Nielsdolieslager: You really should try out the Vienna Instruments in general before deciding. The most big stores (musicstore in cologne for instance) can arrange to have at least the special edition installed on a test-machine, and if you ask in advance, they give you some time to experiment.
You can also try out the SE bundle on Try-Sound.com ...
http://www.try-sound.com/detail.asp/vi9b_vienna_special_edition_bundle/en
Hope this helps [:)]
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@bhartmann said:
So, I have SE and SE+. I believe my next purchase should be the full Appassionata library since that is the most limited set in my collection. Agree or disagree?It depends. I had the same idea, and Appassionata Strings was the first library I bought after the SE and SE+. But a couple of years later, it's the library I use least, because it just happens that I haven't had a project in that time that required a huge string section. Meanwhile, Woodwinds 1 and Brass 1 aren't at all exotic, but I use them nearly every day, and would never go back to their SE counterparts.
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@ MassMover: you're telling me I need to buy the same sounds all over again and I'm asking how to avoid it, lol. I really see the point, I just don't have the money :) Imagine you do have €325 and you want to finish an orchestra piece that has a few less standard sounds that are not in Kontakt. You can't finish that piece if you buy the standard version of the Special Edition; almost all of these sounds are already in Kontakt. Did you know that pres-de-la-table playing is in Kontakt too? That's only in the full version of harps :) For 325 you can also get SE Strings+ standard, glass instruments standard and the contrabass clarinet standard. I can always get the SE editions later, but there are many sounds I want to have first. Anyways, thanks for the advice, I learned a lot.