If hollywood offered the amount of articulations as Vienna, and VIenna recorded their samples @ Eastwest ....and if Hollywood used the Vienna Instrument Pro system........then one would have the best library ever....
SvK
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One of the greatest things about Vienna is the very fact that it is not "Hollywood". One can do so much more with it in so many different styles, compared to the orchestral offerings of the "noble competition". From former experience (years ago) as an orchestral musician, to me, VSL, more than any other library sounds the closest to a real symphony.
+1 to DG's comments. Pre-panning is a major problem when one is needing to use a wide variety of types and sizes of ensembles - ensembles that often require significantly different instrument placement.
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I own VSL Appassionata Strings, SE PLUS EXTENDED, and also have the Exploration HD which in effect has all VSL libraries. I also own LASS, and HS. For conistency in sound and control, sorry but VSL still kills the others. As far as work flow, VSL also gets my vote.
Hollywood Strings can sound lush but there all sorts of problems in loops, inherent noises built in to some of the samples (background noise- SLOPPY!), problems with RR, voice robbing, all these things effectively make it unusable to me on a daily basis. Sometimes I can get PLAY to play nicely but with HS in particular, it's a mixed bag. The cello legato sounds nice and the ability to control the level of vibrato is indeed a nice thing. However, let's be truthful here. Claiming that PLAY or HS does things as far as controlling the sound over VSL VI PRO is just not accurate.
I will reiterate a point that I feel needs to be underlined here. I attend concerts weekly. I'm very familiar with what a live orchestra sounds like also having some of my pieces played by real string players. VSL consistently sounds like the real thing, not a recording. EW stuff does sound nice but it sounds like a recording of a good orchestra, and not a live, real performance. Also, no one has competantly emulated the performance legato that VSL started with. Even project SAM, a company a love to death, has had some issues with their legato instruments on Symphobia 2.
It's really easy to get all gushy about the latest and greatest sound library. But for sheer workability, I use VSL more than any other library combined. I used it extensively on a recent documentary score and the composer I was working under (a fairly big player in LA) was so impressed with my cues and VSL, that he also bought up a bunch of VSL libraries. And this guy orchestrates and conducts orchestras every day.
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The demos of Hollywood Strings are a turnoff instantly to me. The sound is not as good as the Appassionata right up front.
But also the interface of Vienna Ensemble has become essential to me. I hate having to use something else that is inevitably less elegant.
And the fact that all the VSL strings in general are not one library, but a whole combination of libraries that are diffferent and have been amassed over a long time - the Solo Strings, Chamber Strings, Orchestral Strings, Appassionata Strings - it is a huge variety of sound you don't get elsewhere. And Dimension Strings are probably the next step...
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I know the VSL people are investigating or actively working with modeling and active manipulation of these amazing samples in real time. They don't need to record any more strings. Maybe a few more round robins but that is it. The sound of Hollywood Strings is excellent but so is VSL. I prefer VSL pure sound.
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wow that's amazing news. yes I can see how much more could be made of the existing material with modeling and manipulation.
exciting times!
after reading all these responses I've modified my opinion now. I'm starting to think that the quality of the HS sound is in some ways a slight cheat - in that , it sounds great out of the box, without much work, but then, with VSL you can do a lot more, it just takes more work and knowledge. I have to admit, I've always felt too in a rush to properly look under the surface, beyond creating a few fairly straightforward custom patches in VI Pro.
Also, while HS does fill a real gap, creating a rich, expensive, lush American sound, if you were being unkind you could also say that the sound is a bit distant, unfocused, too chorusy, rich and fruity with its slightly out of tune moments.
Personally though, I'm very happy to have both!
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For me, the only things that VSL needs to record are molto vibrato patches for Orchestral Strings, and to make the App Strings have as many articulations (as well as non vibrato) as the Orchestral Strings. The rest could be dealt with by careful editing, which because of the locked nature of the sample pool, would have to be done by VSL
There are a few things that I personally would like (as a string player), but for most people they would be more of a hindrance than a help, I think. [;)]
DG
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I would also like for VSL to add the ability to increase vibrato on the fly like HS. That is one nice feature that EW did. Sadly, even with the update, I cannot use this library much. It's just not working well for me. VSL just works. And at the end of the day, isn't that what we pay for?
p.s. LASS works beautifully in tandem with VSL strings.
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@DG said:
...make the App Strings have as many articulations (as well as non vibrato) as the Orchestral Strings.
I really agree with this and wish it would be done since the Appassionata strings are so great. It is interesting that VSL did the Appassionata as a supplement to the other strings, but they sound so good that people have started to use them exclusively. And so as DG notes it would be good to have all the highly detailed articulations that the Orchestral strings have, even though from the standpoint of the original intention, it is redundant. I admit that I have done some substituting of Orchestral for Appassionata on certain artiulcations (like ponticello, etc.) that is not strictly speaking "correct" but was an essential workaround.
One other thing that occurred to me concerning more recordings not being needed - isn't using a lot of scripting with the samples that already exist basically against the whole philosophy of VSL? It's "pristine" approach to recording authentic samples of everything? I agree it could be done of course, but it seems against the whole approach of VSL. But maybe they will change that philosophy as things progress.
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* Vienna Dimension Strings. (The Next Generation of Strings from VSL)
* Appassionata Strings 2. (More Articulations that complement Appas. Str. I)
* Any other New Strings from VSL would be Great !
Hopefully It won't be too long before something of this nature is announced [:D]
Cheers,
Muziksculp
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@SyQuEsT said:
I don't know what will be the future but the answer of this question could hold in three words : Vienna Dimension Strings
Yeah I agree with that. The Dimension Brass could be like a test for the technology applied more extensively to recording simultaneously solo/soli and ensemble strings, which maybe could solve the now-universal problems of monolithic, chunky movement of sound in a many-player ensemble AND divisi.
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I love the sound of VSL strings. By todays standards, however, its 2-speed legato is nowhere near enough compared to LA Scoring Strings or Hollywood Strings. So many pieces one may need to write will inevitably fall somewhere in between these 2 speeds. IMO, LASS's legato speed control presets are by far the best out there; better than Hollywood Strings, and certainly much better and more flexible than VSL. You can get a 4-part string piece written and articulated in no time compared the all the tweaks and adjustments you need to do to make certain pieces play well with VSL's 2 legato speed choices (and that is not saying it can even be done, because the choices simply do not exist). VSL needs to get back in the game with this. After all, they were the pioneers in this and you would think they'd be on it to compete in a big way. Unfortunately, however, I did read a post on this forum a few months ago where someone from VSL said they didn't think they were going to do a new string library like dimension strings. I hope they do something. I own the entire VSL library but I only use the woodwinds and elements these days...
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@garylionelli said:
certainly much better and more flexible than VSL. You can get a 4-part string piece written and articulated in no time compared the all the tweaks and adjustments you need to do to make certain pieces play well with VSL's 2 legato speed choices (and that is not saying it can even be done, because the choices simply do not exist). VSL needs to get back in the game with this. After all, they were the pioneers in this and you would think they'd be on it to compete in a big way.I totally disagree with that. You're going on about techniques and the use of different legato speeds, etc.
But when a person steps back and listen to the final product the sound is what matters, and so far no other strings sound as good and natural in a mix as Appassionata.
I do agree it would be nice to have MORE articulations, MORE layers, MORE sounds, MORE strings, yeah!
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Appassionata strings needs to have the same articulations as the original libraries... there are many that are missed! They are such a beautiful library, I wish they hadn't left those articulations out...
Lets have a vote: who votes for Dimension strings!!!? Come on... it would be great. VSL are the innovator, in this case the hollywood strings method is definitely on to something...
Ochestral Strings, in Divisi (the solo instruments are already done), and Appassionata Strings in Divisi. If you need to choose which one to do first, do Appassionata strings in divisi first, then orchestral strings.
