Two things,

1. never heard anything as good as Dimension brass on my PC. Yesterday a professional classical musician came to my house and he can't distinguish a  Janacek Sinfonietta on You-tube and me playing Dimension brass horns. It is definitively a step ahead, Like every step ahead, it makes you feel you need it, but than there will be another step, and so on. I have spent a lot of money on the first giga-sampler samples but now they are passed away.
2. during these years VSL has already offered many discounts to old clients. The last offer closed some days ago.

That said, is a pity that there is always a step ahead in life and they sometime costs more than we can afford.

@Sergino Futurino said:

2. during these years VSL has already offered many discounts to old clients.

Well, I don't really want to complain about anything VSL do, but as an owner of all the DVD libraries, the offer in December to get a free extended library and discount on more libraries was no good to me, as I already own them all, so that offer was no good to the most loyal customer, but of course there isn't going to be an offer suitable for someone that doesn't need to buy any thing else,  so it's a self defeating point really, thought I mention it though....

What about VSL doing some special extra extended library add ons, that are not available to buy, but are offered to "special customers" (not necessarily free) from time to time, a bit like the Jazz Drums situation .... 

Of course VSL isn't obligated to do anything.  But offering deals for loyal customers keeps them happy (and generally keeps them buying more and passing along good word of mouth).  Some companies do it, some don't.  I know one of the other string libraries has a new library coming out soon and they're offering it to people who own the original for half price.  Sure they're not making as much on those customers but it sure keeps them happy and wanting more.

@mike connelly said:

Of course VSL isn't obligated to do anything.  But offering deals for loyal customers keeps them happy (and generally keeps them buying more and passing along good word of mouth).  Some companies do it, some don't.  I know one of the other string libraries has a new library coming out soon and they're offering it to people who own the original for half price.  Sure they're not making as much on those customers but it sure keeps them happy and wanting more.

I understand what you're saying and to some extent agree. However, I hate it when clients try to re-negotiate the price of the next job downwards, just because they've given me work in the past. It always leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

DG

VSL is the best symphonic library on the market right now. No doubt about it. We all love you guys for making our musical dreams come true!

But do not underestimate the significance of keeping customers, old and new, happy. It can be done by various means, for example by pricing models. But it is very important, no matter how good products you're selling.

So far, I'm happy and buying your fantastic proucts.

Best

Pekay

Someone complains that he as a good customer isn´t treated better than a new customer, concerning to an entirely new product. But compared with a new customer he has the benefit of products that have the best quality, of software which is sophisticated more than other and which has the longest half-life period... This is the real commitment of VSL, which no new customer has.

Of course it woulf be fine for customers to profit not only in case of upgrades, but also if entirely new products are developed with significant effort and costs. But I can´t understand that someone takes this for granted. This mentality is not my mentality.

 Better not having special offers than end up with TASCAM or something like that[8-|]

I'm happy and feel reassured of course to see that everybody ( more than 90% )  think like me : VSL is fantastic ( no doubt about this ) but it's a shame to have no intelligent commercial attitude with their regular customers.

The new dimension brass is simply to expensive for its mission : find a little part of the solution for an old problem, the question of divisi.

495 euros and soon 595 euros to have a few brass divisi sounds, when we have already spent 2000 euros for the brass sounds ... 

David.

Sorry to harp on, but you haven't even got 90% on this thread (more like 50% I would imagine). If we include all the thousands of customers who haven't responded to this thread, then your "everybody" becomes a tiny proportion of users.

Just correcting your maths. [;)]

DG

@Sergino Futurino said:

2. during these years VSL has already offered many discounts to old clients.

Well, I don't really want to complain about anything VSL do, but as an owner of all the DVD libraries, the offer in December to get a free extended library and discount on more libraries was no good to me, as I already own them all, so that offer was no good to the most loyal customer, but of course there isn't going to be an offer suitable for someone that doesn't need to buy any thing else,  so it's a self defeating point really, thought I mention it though....

What about VSL doing some special extra extended library add ons, that are not available to buy, but are offered to "special customers" (not necessarily free) from time to time, a bit like the Jazz Drums situation .... 

The UAD forum also was filled with that complaint frequently.

Rewarding users, who already own the full package, is difficult. Sometimes UAD gave a "cash voucher" that was not time limited to them, so they could profit from it when the next product is available.

Regarding discount schemes, we as useres can only give some ideas, but we have to accept, that it is the companies right to set up its pricing table.

IMO a very simple scheme, which gives bigger discounts the more products or value has been invested in, would be fair and easy. Like Voxengo does it e.g.

This also would solve the problems around the crossgrade topics like " Why can´t I get discounts on the extended DVD strings, though I have the download version " etc etc.

In the end the only "weapon"  the customer has, is buying the products that are priced well and offer good quality for the $$ invested.

If you don´t like it or it is too expensive, leave it. As simple as that.

OK DG, let's ask each person who participated at this thread to answer at my last mail :

1. OK David I agree with you.

... or ...

2. Sorry David, but I don't agree with you.

We'll see :)

Of course, people who didn't give their opinion are very welcome.

Thanks to all :)

David.

@kleinholgi said:

In the end the only "weapon"  the customer has, is buying the products that are priced well and offer good quality for the $ invested.

If you don´t like it or it is too expensive, leave it. As simple as that.

Yes, it is that simple, but as a frequent customer I also like to tell them, when I feel something is not in place. They may ignore that or listen to it, what they will probably do, when many people think that way.

@fritzflotow said:

Yes, it is that simple, but as a frequent customer I also like to tell them, when I feel something is not in place. They may ignore that or listen to it, what they will probably do, when many people think that way.

True.

And it´s a good thing to discuss it here, because the VSL forum is one of the few, where company personel is actively posting personally.

On the other hand the absolute voting is in the webstore when it comes to "Apply credit card No. now"

.

For me, e.g. I´ve been a die hard fan of the UAD1 card. But in the last years didn´t spend a single $ for their obviously altered product strategy and pricing scheme (software 30% up, hardware 100%-200% up, additionally including some compatibility problems).

In the end it is all your choice.

@Titi said:

find a little part of the solution for an old problem, the question of divisi.

495 euros and soon 595 euros to have a few brass divisi sounds

THIS IS A TOTAL DISTORTION.  It is not a "few brass divisi sounds" !!! 

The Dimension Brass is a new library of complete orchestral brass and a NEW TECHNOLOGY.  This technology was not available at the time of the original solo/ensemble brass collections and new work was done to create it.  This has to be paid for.  For it to be commercially viable it has to be sold, not given away or severely discounted to someone who bought the previous collections.  Because they are not the same products.   They are absolutely different.  You are confusing the fact that they REPRESENT the same orchestral instruments with the fact that they are completely different sets of samples and software.  If VSL was simply repackaging old samples with new software - then you might have a cause for complaint.  But they are not.  They have recorded a completely new library integrated with the new Vi software in a new approach for making it more useable and practical to a composer.  This is exactly what was needed for many situations in solving not a "little part of a solution"  but a HUGE problem in sample scoring.   I have worked hours and hours trying to get solo instruments to split and then rejoin into various sized combinations - something that happens all the time with an orchestra - and it never really worked.  I often compromised MIDI performances and changed orchestrations SIMPLY TO AVOID THIS PROBLEM.  So it is a major problem solved and another great innovation that people ought to be excited about. 

I personally hope this approach is used in more new collections.  Herb was right to point out that the woodwinds don't need it as much because their timbres don't interact as much and the combinations are in general smaller (unless you're Richard Strauss).  But strings!  That is another matter...  [^o)]  

@William said:

For it to be commercially viable it has to be sold, not given away or severely discounted to someone who bought the previous collections.

I wouldn't expect a "severe" discount, but even a modest one to people who own the cube or even the full brass libraries would be a nice gesture.  And doing that might even lead to more sales and more money made.

Also, it should be pointed out that there are sample libraries that have had free additions of new material for existing customers and severely discounted expansion libraries - it's commercially viable in that case because it motivates more people to go from not customers to new customers to existing customers, and it keeps existing customers happy and more enthusiastic about buying new products from them.  It's not like higher prices are the only way to bring in more revenue, you can also do it by selling more copies.

The only thing I have to add is an issues nobody seems to have brought up - which means I might be alone on this [:P]

But, I have no other VSL libraries that made me feel the need to buy the Vienna Instruments Pro plugin, so I don't have that. I bought Vienna Ensemble Pro since i needed that and it provides a whole great server environment/template setup for your samples.

However, to really exploit the feautures of Dimension Brass, you need Vienna Instruments Pro - and that is not included within the package! So I actually need to shell out another 125 Euros in addition to the price of the library to actually be able to use it properly. I think that is quite curious, really.

The actual price is not the issue here. The VSL owner is proud to say "I have a library worth 10 000 euro", meaning that it's expensive but good and I am wealthy enough to afford it.

A nice-price policy for old customers is a gesture saying "we like you and want to keep you as our customer".

That's all there's to it.

Best

Pekay

I don't think it's necessary to purchase VI Pro, since what it gives you are more bells and whistles--specifically humanization--which are fully applicable to other instruments as well, so it's hard to see the disadvantage to upgrading--though I do understand this frustration (I haven't upgraded yet either and my demo license is expiring very soon).  But it is the natural order of the music samples universe: they will make new things that replace (or compliment) old things, and we will want them (or occasionally, though more rarely, "need" them) and they will cost money, and we will buy them, and yea verily shall it continueth henceforth until the end of time.

But this tirade against VSL for releasing a new product is ridiculous.  First of all, what other products are they going to release?  There are only so many instruments in the orchestra.  So we have repeats, so what?  You now have choices and options.  I probably have enough orchestra libraries to do Havergal Brian mockups (Mahler symphony of 1000 anyone?).  VSL alone has given us 18 french horns (2 solo, 8 epic, 4 section, and 4 dimension), and I am not complaining.  How big is your brass section?  Mine is ENORMOUS!!!  Look upon my horns and despair!!!

Are you going to cry shame again when they release dimension strings? (it only makes sense they would do this since strings in an ensemble operate similarly, and people have been begging for VSL divisi and/or 2nd violins).  Can you imagine?  It's going to be a-a-a-awesome!

I don't understand the anger that you don't get a discount.  I have a few libraries (not the cube, but a few), but I didn't have the funding to take advantage of the winter sale, and I'm not going to blame them for my *really* wanting to.  I have plenty of other libraries, and technically don't "need" another, but I'm not going to go off on the company because I couldn't take advantage of their special before it expired.  So what?  There's always next year.  Maybe by then they will have released something new that I'll be drooling over (which is very likely).

If you have the cube already, how much more do you need?  The answer for me was "more, must have, [grunt, drool]" so I paid my money, so that the Circle of Sampled Life may continue.

So "Sorry, David, but I don't agree with you."  I guess I could have said just that.

Peace.

I was also thinking that it might be better to have VI Pro included however this would

• Upset people who already purchased VI-Pro
• Make the Lib more expensive
• In case of additional Dimension Libs accumulate in cost

Same with Kontakt Libs including the player already, I am not sure how exactly it is handled, but i assume Library providers need to play license to NI for every player sold ....