BadOrange, thanks for the feedback =)
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@BadOrange said:
nothing wrong with trying to imitate. That is how you learn. .That was my point too. If one does it for educational purposes go for it; but only for that (my opinion).
Shawn, you didn't sound egotistical at all - I don't know what prompted that from my post. I just wanted to say that I don't think you really need to do this cheap-imitation thing (for that's what it really is), for I believe you can do a lot better from what I heard. I really don't think you will get a gig doing 10th rate Williams, and that's all right because only a few can do 9nth rate and that's where it stops. If you don't trust my opinion (no reason why you should), why don't you ask some professionals (directors and producers), and by professionals I mean people who usually work with more than a few million euros per movie/TV series. Maybe I'm wrong (even if I am I would never do it myself), but like I said I often hear other composers being imitated in films and on T.V. Not Williams really, not as much. There must be reasons, one of which (I'm guessing) is that no one can do it convincingly, and without being patently derivative, and that directors/producers just don't want bad Williams; I'm certain they'd go instead for O.K.ish Zimmer; in their majority...
Nonetheless I wish you good luck with consolidating your own style.
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I also think the just the fact of the trend and aesthetic at the moment dictates perhaps what directors want more so than the fact that people can't imitate Williams which I disagree with. Even Williams later scores were much less melody driven than his Star Wars days. There is also the trend in mixing where the music is really pushed to the back contending with loud sound FX. Very intricate orchestration doesn't work. You only have so much room and the result tends to be rather dense heavy string an brass arrangements with very little counterpoint. I also think that in between those extremely loud scenes, you would typically want to give the audience a break which probably accounts for all the pedal tone underscoring.
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Whether '70s Williams was more melodic than '90s and '00s is arguable, but who cares anyway? When I want to listen to melodies the last person on my list is Williams; there are so many better composers than him on that score. But for sheer energy, for musical technique - NOT just orchestration, for invention, he's up there!
As far as the heavy action scenes, traditionally they have all been scored properly. From the days of Tiomkin, to the days of Goldsmith and Williams, real composers composed real music for those scenes. Even if I bought the "give the audience a break" and "too many FX" arguments, what is the excuse for the basest, indigent, and most offensive in its ineptitude, what passes for film-music today, underscoring all the other scenes in movies (transitions, silent action, thought-scenes, romantic, family, court, country, sky, nature-scenes, etc. etc.)
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BadOrange, I'm looking at your feedback more carefully now. If you have time can you please give me more specific details (which instruments, approx where in the song, and what's wrong with it) about how you feel the mix and phrasing should be improved? I think all your other feedback is clear, and I'll have to practice with future compositions, but at least I can try to improve the mix and VSL performances on this song. I only have VSL special edition and the basic convolution reverb provided by FL Studio. I'll have to consider based on your feedback if I would need better articulations (I wish I had sforzatissimo, realistic runs, more velocity layers, etc) or maybe if I need Vienna MIR. Thanks in advance, but I'll completely understand if its not worth your time =)
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Shawn --
Thanks for sharing this work-in-progress! Let me also chime in with a "preference" for the second part of the work. It has good "bones," in my humble opinion.
I hope that you will receive more detailed feedback regarding suggestions for altered orchestration, voice leading and such [edit: and share this with the forum]. Most of us are, ourselves, "works-in-progress" in such areas and I know that many others will find the critique instructional. I have tended to employ too few modulations in my own work and I am trying to be more adventurous in that regard as well.But in the end, if it sounds good to YOU then that is a worthy end in and of itself ;-)
Cheers,
Craig
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Hi everyone,
Thanks again for taking the time to listen, and the feedback is very helpful =)
Since some people have asked, I made a rough incomplete score. It has no dynamics or tempo/rubato markings, but please be assured that I know specifically where those markings go... I just haven't done it yet, being busy with other work.
http://www.suonlabs.com/galactic-swashbuckler-score.pdf
http://www.suonlabs.com/music/incomplete/galactic-swashbuckler.mp3
I think many people will find it interesting and informative to see this. I hope it shows the amount of deep detail I tried to consider, despite superficially imitating Williams. I'm sure it also reveals many faults in my composition, which I hope people will kindly point out =)
Best,
~Shawn
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don't worry about dynamics, I've often omitted them by mistake and kinda yelled at the orchestra why they weren't following the decrescendo. Was rather funny. I mean it wasn't there so I was a jackass and said any good musician would of just felt it it and followed the conductor The brass guys said any good composer would of wrote them in. Then I threw my pencil trying to gauge his eye. Then we took a break. It was quite funny and we were all kinda joking around. I apologized for trying to blind the Trombone player and the trumpet player apologized on behalf of the violas as it was really all their fault all along.
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P Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on