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  4. VE Pro and Logic and the curse of 1 core overloading
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    Hello

    Did you read those :

    http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/27029/177079.aspx#177079

    if that does not help you can use VE PRO SERVER (I had the same problem and that solved it)

    Best

    Cyril

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • C
    C
    Hi Igor, This might pertain to you as you're running Kontakt. We've noticed that having multiple outputs enabled inside logic (aux on the plugin instance of VE Pro) seems to throw all that processing on 1 single core. So if your running a big orchestral template and 10 or 15 instances of VE pro coming into Logic and using Multi Outputs, you can start to see 1 processor (usually 7 in an 8 core machine) creep up there.
  • T
    T
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    here was my question to VSL and the answer I got, just in case it helps anybody to figure out what is going on with  Apple and their Logic pro developers. 

    I must say that since then and after been a Logic user for years I am testing Cubase and Protools for a better audio engine overlan eficiency. Read carefully my question to VSL and their answer:

    <----------------------------------------

    @Another User said:

    Hello

    @Another User said:

    Working in Logic pro on a big orquestral template using several VE-pros instances overlan in the same mac pro, I notice that in my 12 core new Mac pro only the last core is being used and often as the session grows Logic stops and I get the test message: "System overload. Audio engine can not process in time the data..."

    @Another User said:

    I tested the same orchestral example as in above situation but this time opening each track with a  VI-pro instrument directly in Logic pro (without Ve-pro) and the result is that all the cores in my mac pro are being evenly used as it should be.

    @Another User said:

    So now I ask myself why is this happening, and what sense does it make then to use a orch. template with many VE-pros overlan in a 12 core mac pro if only one core is being used waisting this way the power of my 12 core mac?

    @Another User said:

    I have tried all kind of solutions to arrive to the conclusion that maybe using VEpro in a multicore system doen´t work out and maybe is better go to the one VIpro by track solution in Logic pro for a better use of the compùter power processing.

    @Another User said:

    Please I need some serious technical advice about this. I am working in a professional situation here in my studio and I need to run lots of Vienna and Kontakt instances to accomplish my large orchestral film projects. I have spent many hours creating a template with more than 200 tracks, including group buses etc and now I see that all of it may have been a waist of time. Is hard for me to believe that VEpro can not use all the cores of my mac pro:(

    @Another User said:

    ------------------------

    @Another User said:

    Please read all my tech stuff:

    @Another User said:

    Logic Pro (64 bits)

    @Another User said:

    preferences buffer: 1024 for Playback, 256 for midi imput. 

    @Another User said:

    each VE-pro is a 16 track multinstrument. I use in Logic thr midi multinstrument for the midi tracks in the organize window  and aux tracks in the mixer for the audio returns from the  VE-pro server.

    @Another User said:

    VE-pro (64 bits) server preferences

    @Another User said:

    multiprocessing: 2 threads per instance (I also tryed out with 1 thread, 4 threads etc without noticing any chanches)

    @Another User said:

    Mac Pro 2 x 2.93 Ghz 6 core intel Xeon

    @Another User said:

    32 Gb RAM

    @Another User said:

    OSX Snow Leopard 10.6.4

    @Another User said:

    RME PCI HDSPe AIO audio card

    @Another User said:

    SATA 64 bit cache internal RAID  Drives holding the Libraries.

    @Another User said:

    SATA external  Drives holding the sessions and video.

    @Another User said:

    VEpro v. 7349

    @Another User said:

    VI pro v. 7349

    @Another User said:

    Logic pro 9.1.3

    @Another User said:

    Sibelius 6.2

    @Another User said:


    @Another User said:

    best

    @Another User said:

    Tomás San Miguel

    @Another User said:

    www.musimagic.com<http://www.musimagic.com>

    @Another User said:

    ______________________________________________________

    @Another User said:

    VSL´s ANSWER HERE:::::::::::::

    @Another User said:


    Hi,

    there are some flaws in Logics audio engine, most notably being:

    - Forces processing of all outputs from multi-output instruments to a single core.
    - Forces processing of any send chains from these channels to a single core

    Combine the above, and you may end up with the scenario you describe. For whatever reason, Logic behaves better when no Aux outputs from the AU's are being used. Then it can spread the load of processing onto several cores. Thus, my suggestion to you would be to use only stereo returns from each VE Pro instance, mixing inside the VE Pro mixer - which has a properly multithreaded audio engine.

    We have not experienced this behavior with any other hosts.


    Thanks,

    Martin Saleteg
    Software Developer
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    I had the same problem with an 8 core Macpro (the 8the core was going on overload, the other where around 10/15 %)

    I solve it using VE PRO server

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • J
    J

    I found that excluding all 32 bit plugs (thus non 32 bit bridge), things works much better. [B]
  • P
    P
    I have a i7 core mac and the latest Logic 9. I have about 18 instances of VEP in Logic going out to two slave computers running Kontakt, PLAY, etc... I do notice one of the cores getting into the red zone while the rest hover around 15%. I didn't know this could have anything to do with VEP. Performance wise, my system is running great with the exception of a small pause before playback every few minutes. Not sure if that is related to this issue.
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    do you have a lot of effects running in Logic ? reverbs ?

    If yes you must uses busses so Logic spread the load across processors

    Best

    Cyril

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • P
    P
    I have all my fx with busses. No problem there. I'm just wondering if there is a way to get VEP to spread out over all the cores, or if this is a Logic issue. Not sure. Here is a tutorial for spreading fx: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3161
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    it's  a Logic issue [+o(]

    Look with activity monitor if the load is balanced ! (mine was, so it was Logic reporting core overload that did not existed)

    To track your problem I will disable all FX one after one and see if this cure the problem. (suppressing the reverb should help)

    Then I Will read the link given by passenger57 and apply it little by little the FX

    Best

    Cyril

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • P
    P
    The one core seems to be related to the number of instances of VEP. But I think your right, it is indeed a Logic issue. It must be quite a challenge for the Vienna programmers to always have to keep up with all the new systems, DAWs, plugins, etc, that are always changing. So extra kudos to you! =)
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    @Cyril said:

    Hello

    Did you read those :

    http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/27029/177079.aspx#177079

    if that does not help you can use VE PRO SERVER (I had the same problem and that solved it)

    Best

    Cyril

    Cyril - Could you please elaborate? Do you mean you ran VEP as a server on the same machine as Logic? My two outboard PCs are running in server mode. I have VEP loaded up in Logic as a multi-instrument plugin. Is there another way to do this? thanks!
  • W
    W

    I have the same problem. Mixing in the VIframes is possible, yes, but very inconvenient as I'd have to save each VIFrame with each project (I run VEPro decoupled for snappier response in Logic) and would have to reload them for each new project, which defeats the great preserve feature.

    I submitted a feature request to Apple with a link to this thread and Martin's explanation. Those who experience this problem, please do the same: http://www.apple.com/feedback/logicpro.html
  • C
    C

    I'm in the middle of setting up a large template too and have noticed this problem.  VE pro is not playing nice.  I get distributed cores but I'll suddenly get massive stuttering and dropouts when using VE Pro but loading everything as separate VIPros in Logic yields smooth results.  I have Cubase 5 and tried that but the CPU usage was far worse.  I tried to add Vienna Suite eq to the VE Pro but that drove the CPU over the top.  Running them in Logic was much better.  Granted in all of this my machine is an older 2.66 quad Mac Pro.

    Chris

    Edit: I don't know if you've noticed but the load time with VI has gotten extremely quick practically negating the need for separate hosting.
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
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    @passenger57 said:

     Cyril - Could you please elaborate? Do you mean you ran VEP as a server on the same machine as Logic?

    yes, 64bit

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • S
    S
    Hi, i have the same Problem..(8 Core / Logic 9.1.3 VE Pro latest Version on one Machine) I know that i can fix it when i mix everyhting in VE Pro and return it as one Stereo Output Back to Logic..but that would kill my whole Setup. (SSL Duende won´t work know in the 64Bit VEPro and the Euphonix MC Mix and MC Controls just can Mix a hole Stereo Input of "Strings" "Brass" etc...which make the a kind of "useless" - having all this faders) So my question: Can i fix it when i run VE Pro on a second machine (PC?), or is the moment when the Audio Input is linked to the Logic on the Mac Pro the bottle neck - and is still get this overload, even if all the Vienna stuff is NOT on the same machine? Thanks for your help! greets Stefan
  • C
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    @Stibi74 said:

    Hi, i have the same Problem..(8 Core / Logic 9.1.3 VE Pro latest Version on one Machine) I know that i can fix it when i mix everyhting in VE Pro and return it as one Stereo Output Back to Logic..but that would kill my whole Setup. (SSL Duende won´t work know in the 64Bit VEPro and the Euphonix MC Mix and MC Controls just can Mix a hole Stereo Input of "Strings" "Brass" etc...which make the a kind of "useless" - having all this faders) So my question: Can i fix it when i run VE Pro on a second machine (PC?), or is the moment when the Audio Input is linked to the Logic on the Mac Pro the bottle neck - and is still get this overload, even if all the Vienna stuff is NOT on the same machine? Thanks for your help! greets Stefan

    If you run VE Pro on a separate PC life is much better I find.  I only have one PC so far and that runs a competitors string library, but within the VEPro host.  Logic barely notices the incoming load (granted thats just a stereo stream, but more won't bother it).  I gave up trying to host all 32 instruments in VE Pro on my older MacPro 2.66 because my machine just isn't fast enough.  Until I can build a 2nd PC to host all the Vienna stuff it will live inside Logic.  At least that way I can start freezing individual tracks as the load starts to get heavy.  The downside is if I tweak the template and need to apply it to other projects it's a long process.

    Chris
  • S
    S
    Hi Chris, thanks for your reply..am i right: At this point you don´t work with 2 different pc? So you not 100 % shure if a second PC would fix the problem? Because i think about to buy a second PC to fix it - but if i buy it just to find out, it´s still the same problem in the moment the audio arrives to the mac and logic - that would be not so good - in case of time an money :-((( So if you (or anyone) have some reliable informations if this could fix it - that would be great... Thank you Stefan
  • C
    C
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    @Stibi74 said:

    Hi Chris, thanks for your reply..am i right: At this point you don´t work with 2 different pc? So you not 100 % shure if a second PC would fix the problem? Because i think about to buy a second PC to fix it - but if i buy it just to find out, it´s still the same problem in the moment the audio arrives to the mac and logic - that would be not so good - in case of time an money :-((( So if you (or anyone) have some reliable informations if this could fix it - that would be great... Thank you Stefan

    I'll know this weekend becuase I was going to test a setup where my MacBook pro runs my choirs.  I'll let you know.

    Chris
  • JT3_JonJ
    JT3_JonJ

    I thought perhaps running multiple VE servers (one for each instrument) would solve this issue, but apparently not. I'm still running 32-bit Logic as many of my plugins are not yet 64-bit, so the only way I can run large templates is with VE-pros ability to load my sample heavy instruments outside logic. 

    Is there any solution to this problem? I'm not even running a full orchestra and I'm already hitting the limit of my CPU since its only using one core!! I am only running 10 VE pro servers, each with a single instrument & no aux routing. I'm even running 5 in 64-bit and 5 in 32-bit VE pro servers hoping this would spread the load, and apparently it doesn't!! 

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Is my only option to abandon VE-pro and run everything in 64-bit? 
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    You can run 32 bit and 64 bit AU in Logic set in 64 bit

    It is better t have 16 VI in a VE PRO

    I have 1 x VE PRO 64 bit server with 8 x VE PRO that have a total of 80 VI (instruments) and this uses 50/60 % of my CPU on very heavy parts

    Best

    Cyril

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic