I am breaking my own rules and doing a classical work by Elgar Op. 70 for practice purposes and apart from anything else the use of sordino strings is genius. What I get from it, is the way the violas knit together violins, cellos and basses. It's too good for me to get sounding anywhere near right but it is good study.
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Elgar is so underrated by the academic world. I know he sort of missed the boat by 10 years but I mean he was in England. But his music is quite impressive. His approach reminds me of chopin in that he did allow for nice hooks/melodies despite being surround by sophisticated harmony and structures. And unlike Wagner, you didn't have to wait 5 minutes. Definitely my favourite string orchestrator but I suppose that tends to happen when you are a violinist. I don't really have anything bad to say but I love his orchestrations. One of the few that can create such a dense texture without it sounding mush. It isn't so much the way he used it like lets say Prokofiev ( who hands down makes the most with the least) who could make 3 lines sound so thick but rather how he effortfully made so many elements come together. I remember performing Schoenberg's gurrelieder with the MSO and that was an absolutely muddy mess.
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Not so much underrated but he personally had problems coming from what he perceived to be a very working class background and Catholicism. Being a Catholic in England has never been easy and it was a lot worse in Elgar's day. A great orchestrator actually and the Enigma Variations are probably just about perfect. Not really my forte at all. I studied Enigma Variations, Noyes Fludde and Brandenburg Concerto No. 3 for what was called O level music in 1968 and finished up going all out baroque so Elgar is always new to me whenever I take a look. As is just about anything after 1759.
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WHen I said underrated, I mean at schools. I remember going to 2 different schools and it was always the same composers they discussed and totally ignored others. I don't think Tchaikovsky, Dvorak , Elgar were ever mentioned in any of my classes. I feel like the teachers teach what they were taught and it is this long cycle of just examples that probably came from this one guy that liked certain guys and used those examples. There are many passages from all those composers that could be used instead of constantly using the same composers all the time. I found that in music, you really learn most of it yourself and the undergrad should really as a goal open you up to different things you might not of known. Well if my silly dreams of being a working composer ever fall flat. I teach teach but make sure that lets say in harmony class, have examples from as many composers as possible. So you learn about harmony and a little bit about history. Of course before I do that, I will have to take a few years and engage myself in a self destructive spiral of heroin use and poor hygiene. Then when I reach rock bottom , I start teaching at some inner city school and despite our cultural differences , I make a difference in their lives and they all pass the SATs and Charlene decides to keep the baby. hmmm I think I just described some awful movie with Fonda.
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@BadOrange said:
Not sure who that was aimed but finding the pertinence of your rude comment and what the guy above just asked is kinda hard.I don't want to speak for Paul but I don't think his comment was directed at you, necessarily, I think it was directed at anyone who thinks they are going to make a difference teaching at inner city schools. A common denominator of almost all of Paul's posts is a pretty pessimistic view of the current state of affairs. And considering the aforementioned 'current state of affairs' I find myself agreeing with him more and more. What's sad is that I've never considered myself pessimistic. I have always thought of myself as pragmatic.
Ok but now we are getting way off topic...
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@jasensmith said:
I don't want to speak for Paul but I don't think his comment was directed at you, necessarily, I think it was directed at anyone who thinks they are going to make a difference teaching at inner city schools. A common denominator of almost all of Paul's posts is a pretty pessimistic view of the current state of affairs.
Hahahah! That is in fact correct Jasen! Well done. But I can't stand forums where it suddenly becomes about individuals. I am banned from two music forums currently for using foul language and what was perceived to be rude behaviour. It was not rude but in fact an honest appraisal and you just can't do that on forums I have found out. You have to compromise and be nice and tell people what they want to hear - even if it's total bollocks. Most of these people can't actually play and can barely hold a knife and fork. The younger ones still think banks are to blame for them being born a fucking moron in the first place. [;)]
I keep it to a minimum here out of respect to VSL. That's the only reason. No one wants to hear about individuals - I find it a little bit like being covered in projectile vomit actually. I have no interest most of the time in anyone's personal circumstances and therefore when you get remarks aimed at you about rudeness all I can say is the perpetrators need to get out more.
Carry on.
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@PaulR said:
It was not rude but in fact an honest appraisal and you just can't do that on forums I have found out.I totally agree with what you're saying.I think part of the problem is that people don't get a true sense of your tone. Being a fellow Brit, I find a blunt, dry, appraisal quite funny, but understandably this can be mistaken for you just being an arse.
As the O.P., when you made an interesting comment about my question, I read a couple of your posts to see who you were.
The first thing I read was something like "trailer music liked by the kind of morons who play video games". I thought, well there's no point getting in to a conversation with this guy. It appears I'm a moron. On both counts.
My first reaction was that you're probably a doddery old twat who couldn't be trusted to sit the right way round on a toilet. My second reaction after reading a couple more posts , is that you're witty and smart (In a Gregory House kind of way, though maybe you're too high-brow to get the reference) and appear to know more about orchestration than I could ever hope to. And you like the word 'moron'.
My point being, is that over a pint in a pub, we could exchange our 'morons' and 'twats' in a good-humoured way and move past it in to a decent conversation. I'd be happy to play the moron if you tell me what to do with a viola (!), but on internet forums I guess people think "This guy sounds like hard work." BTW, don't forget, you're the moron on some subjects, but maybe you don't frequent those forums.
[ Edit: Dunno why my a-r-s-e got changed to ***. It let your swearing through... Not Fair! 😉 ]
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@PaulR said:
I keep it to a minimum here out of respect to VSL.
Wow, really. Considering how often this forum resembles monkeys throwing feces, I can only imagine...
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And I have to say, this forum software makes some pretty bizarre choices about what words it censors and what it doesn't...
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@Steve555 said:
My first reaction was that you're probably a doddery old twat who couldn't be trusted to sit the right way round on a toilet. My second reaction after reading a couple more posts , is that you're witty and smart (In a Gregory House kind of way, though maybe you're too high-brow to get the reference) and appear to know more about orchestration than I could ever hope to. And you like the word 'moron'.
Nope - your first reaction was right.
However, poor old Mike Conelly has never forgiven me for being right about President Obama. [:'(] [:P]
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P Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on