What virtual MIDI cable have you installed? I use LoopBe30

DG

Hi Basso,

thanks for your interest in Vienna MIR.

Actually your questions should be covered in Section D of the MIR Manual: "Entering the MIR Orbit: Integration and Optimization of Vienna MIR in Your Daily Work", starting on page 71.

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1. Typical Setup 1 – Vienna MIR on a dedicated computer

This setup encompasses two computers: System A is the Windows Vista 64bit / Windows 7 64bit machine that hosts Vienna MIR; Machine B is any other source of MIDI data – not necessarily a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW)! In other words: Machine B could be a Windows-, OSX- or Unixbased computer running any kind of MIDI-generating software (pure notation software, or typical sequencing application), or even some piece of hardware, like a sequencer box or simply a MIDI keyboard.

1.1. MIDI Connections

Looking at this scenario, there will be two typical ways to route MIDI into Vienna MIR.

1.1.1. Hardware MIDI connection: Here Machine A (which is hosting Vienna MIR) will have to be equipped with some kind of MIDI interface, allowing for the connection of the well-known five-pin cables. You will have to connect the MIDI Out of Machine B to theMIDI In of Machine A which is hosting Vienna MIR. Of course, this MIDI interface can also be part of the audio hardware built intoMachine A.

Make sure you have enabled the hardware MIDI ports in MIR’s preferences (Options > Audio Settings > MIDI Tab).

This approach is straight-forward and easy to implement. On the downside there’s the restricted amount of possible individual MIDI targets within MIR (one MIDI port – i.e., one MIDI cable – can only handle a maximum of 16 channels; typically, each instrument instantiated in Vienna MIR needs to be connected via one dedicated MIDI channel), and the bad timing behaviour of most MIDI interfaces except the most advanced ones.

1.1.2. Virtual MIDI connection: If Machine B is a computer, as opposed to a hardware MIDI sequencer it is possible to omit hardware MIDI completely. Using 3rd-party utilities like MOL (MIDI over LAN) supplied by MusicLab (http://www.musiclab.com/-products/rpl_info.htm) or ipMIDI – MIDI over Ethernet supplied by Nerds.de (http://nerds.de/en/ipmidi.html), the network adapters of both Machine A and B can be used for the transmission of MIDI commands. Both utilities mentioned above are available for Windows and OSX.

Make sure you have enabled the virtual MIDI ports in MIR’s preferences (Options > Audio Settings > MIDI Tab). There are many benefits to gain from following this route: No additional hardware is needed, the connections allow for a virtually unlimited number of MIDI ports (and MIDI channels), and the timing of MIDI commands ideally is tighter than that of conventional hardware MIDI interfaces. You have to be prepared to deal with IP addresses and other non-musical concepts, though. Troubleshooting can also be pretty demanding, because neither network hardware nor the respective protocols were designed for real-time applications like MIDI-controlled music.

In the end, you would see net-MIDI ports as selectable MIDI outputs on Machine B, and net-MIDI ports as selectable MIDI inputs on any Vienna Instrument (or VSTi) within MIR.

HINT: Please refer to the manuals and guidelines of the respective 3rd-party manufacturers’ utilities for up-to-date information regarding their proper installation and settings.

[....]

2. Typical Setup 2 – Vienna MIR side-by-side with a MIDI sequencer / DAW / notation program on the same machine

With the advent of powerful Intel i7 multiprocessor-based computers with 12 or 24 GB RAM (server solutions with Xeon processors even manage up to 96 GB), the idea of having MIR working on the same machine with a full-blown audio workstation like Nuendo or Cubase has lost most of its Science-Fiction odor. Some thorough planning provided, one single machine can be the backbone of an uncompromising working environment for virtual orchestration. While the basic issues are the same as in set-ups with two separate computers, the solutions for MIDI transmission and audio connections may differ considerably.

2.1. MIDI connections

2.1.1 Hardware MIDI connection: Although both applications reside on a single machine, they will basically treat MIDI data like coming from an outside source. This means that it’s still possible to plug a MIDI cable coming from a MIDI Out to the MIDI In of the same machine – even using the same MIDI interface! For example: Cubase sends MIDI data to Out Port 1, MIR receives this MIDI data stream from In Port 1. This comes especially handy when testing new configurations or working with small arrangements, as it abates the necessity of installing 3rd-party software utilities.

Make sure you have enabled the hardware MIDI ports in MIR’s preferences (Options > Audio Settings > MIDI Tab). Of course it is important to avoid MIDI feedback loops, as they will most likely halt the whole system. It is therefore advisable to disable the MIDI Inputs meant to be used with MIR in the DAW.

At first glance this approach might seem a bit unusual, but it is straight-forward and easy to implement. On the downside there’s the restricted amount of possible individual MIDI targets within MIR (one MIDI port – i.e., one MIDI cable – can only handle a maximum of 16 channels; typically, each instrument instantiated in Vienna MIR needs to be connected via one dedicated MIDI channel) and the bad timing behavior of most MIDI interfaces except the most advanced ones.

2.1.2. Virtual internal MIDI connection: MIDI is “just” another data transfer protocol, which is why its data can be interchanged between applications without any dedicated hardware involved. Several “virtual MIDI cables” or MIDI loopback utilities are available. We had good success during development and testing with LoopBe30 from Nerds.de. The application allows for up to 30 independent virtual MIDI ports (480 MIDI channels!), which is more than enough regarding the fact that the maximum number of instantiated instruments inside Vienna MIR is 128 (or 32 inside Vienna MIR SE). – For testing purposes, LoopBe1 from the same manufacturer provides the same functionality with a single virtual MIDI port.

Make sure you have enabled the virtual MIDI ports in MIR’s preferences (Options > Audio Settings > MIDI Tab). The virtual MIDI ports you have enabled in LoopBe’s control panel will appear as “Internal MIDI” device.

Again, it is important to avoid MIDI feedback loops, as they will most likely halt the whole system. It is therefore advisable to disable the MIDI Inputs meant to be used with MIR in the DAW.

IMPORTANT: LoopBe1 and LoopBe30 offer the possibility of automatic MIDI feedback detection. This feature will shut down any MIDI connection as soon as the data transfer rate exceeds the “canonical” 31.25 kbps of the original MIDI specifications. Actually, for today’s virtual studios this value is completely meaningless, so it is highly advisable to switch OFF this option in LoopBe’s control panel.

If you not only want to connect applications on a single computer, but also exchange MIDI data between two computers without using MIDI hardware, you can try MusicLab’s MOL (MIDI over LAN) which provides MIDI ports over your Ethernet connection.

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... the good news is that obviously your audio-interface is multi-client compatible ("according to the ASIO SDK 2.1",  I assume), so there should be no problem to run MIR side-by-side with Sonar (provided your computer is powerful enough, and there are 64-bit drivers). Just make sure that the latency of the audio system can be set to powers of two (i.e. 256, 512, 1024, 2048 ... samples). - This has nothing to do with MIDI-routing, of course. :-)

HTH,

Thanks for the replies.

I am using Loopbe, but mIr doesn't recieve the midi from sonar.  I have Sonar using loopbe as it's output in the midi tracks, and the instruments in MIR are set up to recieve via loopbe on the relevant midi channel, but nothing is coming through.

Very frustrating, as I would love to try MIR with a view to buying it , but I just can't get it to work for some reason....

Basso - sorry if I ask the trivial thing first: You have Sonar running side-by-side on the same computer as MIR, don't you? You would need a physical MIDI-connection between two different computers, not LoopBe.

What do you mean by "nothing is coming through"? There's no indication that MIDI is received by MIR (.... this would be the little green indicator in MIR's Instrument List window)? Or there's no signal coming from an instrument that's clearly triggered by MIDI?

Please see also my answer to Sabine's question in this thread -> [URL]http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/26897.aspx[/URL] - maybe it helps sorting out some loose ends.

HTH,

Thanks for your reply Dietz.  I am using MIR se on the same system as Sonar.  The system has an i7 920 processor and 12 gb RAM and so is in spec.

The problem is that there is no midi being triggered by MIR when routed through from Sonar.  I am getting audio from MIR by playing the keyboard to trigger a loaded instrument, just no midi from Sonar.  I have checked and re-checked the midi outs and ins from Sonar to MIR and they seem to be set up correctly....

I am sure it is something really simple I am missing, but it is just a matter of finding out what!

Thanks for your help

OK. I think I have found out what the problem is.  The Loopbe monitor seems to keep muting itself every time i shut it down for some reason.  I will try and re-install it to see if that sorts out this 'feature'.

@basso said:

OK. I think I have found out what the problem is.  The Loopbe monitor seems to keep muting itself every time i shut it down for some reason.  I will try and re-install it to see if that sorts out this 'feature'.

 Is this not the problem that Dietz highlighted in yellow above?

DG

@DG said:

 Is this not the problem that Dietz highlighted in yellow above?

no - that is to do with feedback looping - the whole of the loopbe interface was muting every time I closed the monitor box for some reason. Re-install has solved it though.

Oh! Does this mean that you setup is working now? That would be great news!

Yes indeed Dietz.  I am about to buy MIR SE because it sounds fantastic.

The loopebe1 I had installed was muting every time I shut the monitor down for some reason. A re-install sorted it out.

Thanks for your help.

Phew! Great to hear that. Hope you enjoy your new 3D-sampled venues! :-)

Kind regards,