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  4. Mac boot in 64 bit, Logic 9.1.1 32 bit, separate VEPro 32 & 64 bits instances??

  • Mac boot in 64 bit, Logic 9.1.1 32 bit, separate VEPro 32 & 64 bits instances??

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    For those of you using Logic 9.1.1 and VEPro of reasonably powerful Macs pushing things hard (on the same machine), what's the most trouble free way of running things these days? My new 12 core is showing up this coming week, and I'd appreciate any info from folks who have been in the trenches with this for awhile.

    I'd sure love to run Logic 9.1.1 in 64 bit mode, but looking at the list of issues with some of my plug-ins (Waves Mercury especially seems to have a significant list of issues), I'm wondering if I shouldn't wait for more of the pieces to fall in place. Still, I want to use an instance of VEPro in 64 bit mode if I can. 

    What's the most stable situation today for heavy use? 
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    Hey Lee,

    Here's what I've been doing.  Like you, many of my go-to plugins are still 32-bit native, and because of some other missing features when running Logic in 64-bit mode, I still run it at 32.  However, with VE Pro in the mix, I see very few downsides to this.  Since most of my samples are hosted outside Logic, it remains fast & efficient, project load/save times are nearly instant, timing is great, project management is much easier than it used to be, and I can bounce everything offline.  It's a beautiful thing!

    Anyway, in my no-holds-barred scoring template, I've set up 14 instances of the VE Pro plugin, each of which addresses a 64-bit VE Pro server (10 of which are running on the same machine; 4 are on slaves).  Most of these hold 16-channel Kontakt multis; 1 holds a 16-channel PLAY multi, 1 holds an 8-channel Vienna Insts. multi and I add more if I need Spectrasonics stuff.  Correction - I run the PLAY stuff in a 32-bit VE Pro server since it's not yet 64-bit capable.  That's 308 discrete instruments loaded.  My Logic buffer is at 128, and it's been working flawlessly except for a latency compensation bug that's pretty easily worked around (turn off Logic's latency comp before doing any VE Pro-based bounces).  So there you have it - I run 64-bit and 32-bit stuff on the same machine, and Logic doesn't care since it's just hosting the VE Pro plugins which "point" to the respective server.

    The main downside to VE Pro & Logic is that the AU spec only allows for 16 MIDI channels per plugin, so you have to use multiple instances of the VE Pro plugin (1 for every 16 channels).  Doesn't seem to matter though.  For best performance with slave machines, I'd recommend a good ethernet switch and high-quality shielded cat6 cables. 

    Otherwise, you should be good to go - no need to wait.  The usual bottlenecks still apply: carefully spread your sample streaming libraries across as many drives as you can, stuff your machine with RAM and you'll be thrilled with what you can do.  If you haven't already, try out the VE Pro demo.  It's a revolutionary problem-solver!

    Hope that helps!

    MAIN MAC = Mac Pro 8-core (2008) with 16 GB RAM, (8) SATA drives for sample streaming; running Logic 9.1.1

    SLAVE MAC 1 = iMac 3.03 GHz C2D with 16 GB RAM, (4) FW800 drives for sample streaming

    SLAVE MAC 2 =  MacBook Pro 17" 2.8 GHz C2D with 8 GB RAM, (2) FW800 drives for sample streaming
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    Hi Jim,

    Thanks. That's REALLY helpful information.

    With this new 12 Core 2.93 Mac system, I'm going to see how far I can get with 48GB of RAM, a 512GB OS disk, an additional 2Tb 64Mb cache disk for samples in the Mac, two SSD work drives in the Mac (no sample content on these), and then a RocketRaid SATA III 6Gb/s card hooked to four 600Gb Velociraptors (I may RAID two of them, primarily for strings).

    I was really planning on getting four of the new Crucial SATA III 256Gb SSDs, until I found out that Crucial is not releasing firmware update software that works on the Mac (you need to put the drive in a PC to update firmware). Plus, updating firmware (at least up to this point) erases everything on the drive. So, I think I'll let the technology on the SSD side to mature a bit more. Actually, what I'd really like eventually would be one of those SSD PCIe cards (as soon as OZC makes that compatible with Macs).

    Interesting to hear that you're using instances of Play within VEPro. I didn't know that that worked.

    Anyway, as soon as I get my system set up (hopefully later this week), I'm going to do some torture testing to see if I need to add a second machine or not (or maybe another bank of four drives).
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    Glad to help Lee.  BTW, I believe I sold you an Opcode Studio 5 interface back in the late 90's - now that's blast from the past ;-)

    You should do REALLY well with that machine & 48 GB RAM.  You might not even need that much; I've found that past a certain point, your CPU & drives will choke before you can take advantage of all that.  Even with "just" 16 GB in my 8-core, the sheer amount of stuff I can get away with is ridiculous, but I can certainly bottom out - hence the need for a slave machine or two. Your money would probably be better spent on drives... speaking of which, I agree with you on SSD's - I'm waiting for those to mature a bit as well.  Still, if I were to do it today, it would be with these:

    http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Mercury_Extreme_SSD_Sandforce

    They're the only ones doing it right from what I can tell so far, particularly for Mac users.  They don't seem to suffer from the write cycle issues, among other benefits.  Even so, Western Digital Caviar Blacks have been stellar performers for me, especially the ones with 64MB buffers.  I have 4 velociraptors, and they don't make much difference compared to the Caviars.  MUCH less expensive, too.

    And yes, VSL and EastWest have finally fixed the PLAY issues within VE Pro - it works great now.

    Enjoy,
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    Wow, you've got a good memory. The Opcode 5 interface(s) (I eventually had about six of them) worked admirably until I moved them along and replaced them with Emagic AMT8's (which are now almost gone). Times sure change.

    I did get two of those OWC drives (the RE version) to use as my work drives. I only got the Apple SSD as my system drive because I've heard Apple requires you to restore your machine to original equipment if you need AppleCare service.

    The only drawback of those OWC drives is that they're SATA II. The specs of the latest Crucial drives are significantly faster if you use them as SATA III. I wouldn't be as worried with speed degradation over time with a sample playback SSD, because I'd basically be writing the library to it, and leaving it that way. From what I understand, what causes degradation is a lot of overwriting over time.

    Thanks for the Caviar Black recommendation. I see they've got an SATA III version now, too, not that SATA III is needed for that type of drive.

    I have to watch me step, though. My brother designs hard drives for Seagate. I have to make sure he doesn't poke around my machine room, or there might be family issues. ;)
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    Good info Lee, thanks.  True, if you're using SSDs for streaming then the write cycle issue is moot.  I can't wait until they come down in price - I look forward to replacing my hard drive towers with a small handful of SSD's!

    Hey, see if you can drop a bug in your brother's ear re: the new Momentus XT drives (they're "hybrid" combinations of conventional platters & SSD).  The idea is great until pure SSD prices come down, but I've had trouble with them spinning down on their own in Mac laptops, regardless of energy saver prefs.  I've tried everything including Unix scripts, firmware updates, etc., and nothing helps.  I ended up pulling them in favor of WD Travelstars, and I was always a Seagate fan...  I'd love to know why drive mfrs insist on trying to force low power/spin down routines when both major OS's give their users that capability if they choose to enable it.  Drives me nuts (no pun intended) when the whole point of fast drives is fast performance!

    Anyway, back on topic... I won't tell if you don't ;-)
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    Am I the only sad geek drooling at these specs? [:P]

    Anyway, just to add that I've installed 2 Crucial 256GB SSDs for a client in the UK to stream samples and they're outstanding.  The speed is excellent and, with the improvements in VI Pro, I look forward to seeing what will happen next.  I'm about to create another monster VSL server for a UK composer and I'm going with the Apple SSD for that.  Load times?  Blink and you'll miss them.

    Pete Morris
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    BTW, according to a high level guy at Apple, there is no advantage for Logic 9 in booting OSX in 64 bit, just Logic Pro.
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    @Ashermusic said:

    BTW, according to a high level guy at Apple, there is no advantage for Logic 9 in booting OSX in 64 bit, just Logic Pro.
    Are you talking about the kernel? There does seem to be a modest but measurable performance improvement between running in 64 bit kernel versus 32.
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    Yes, I am talking about the kernel. And when I asked him directly if Logic Pro 9 benefitted from booting into it, he said simply "no."