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  • DAW Advice

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    Hi everyone!

    I am coming from a composition background with almost no audio engineering knowledge and currently use Sibelius 6.2. I've decided to take the big plunge into the DAW world. My goal is to create the most realistic and pure classical sound quality I can. This has lead me to the VSL world because it seems they are the leaders for the sound I'm looking for. I am looking at purchasing the Special Edition Extended library.

    Where I need help is VSL compatability with a DAW. I'm a PC user so I'm thinking about Cubase 5 or Sonar 8.5, but there seems to be limited information on these with VSL(all the videos here seem to be Mac). Does anybody have any recommendations as to which DAW would be better suited to import Sibelius midi files and work with the VSL samples? Is there a major difference for what I want to do between the "professional" versions vs. the studio versions for either one?

    My computer info is:

    Windows 7 64-bit CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Quad Q8200 @ 2.33 Ghz

    8 GB RAM

    684 GB Hard Drive

    M-Audio Audiophile USB

    Thanks!

    Paul
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    @Lohena said:

    Does anybody have any recommendations as to which DAW would be better suited to import Sibelius midi files and work with the VSL samples? Is there a major difference for what I want to do between the "professional" versions vs. the studio versions for either one?
     

    Unless Sibelius creates some proprietary MIDI files whenever you export MIDI data all of the major DAWs on the market shouldn't have a problem importing them.  I would suggest that when you export your MIDI be sure to export them as standard MIDI files.

    I use Sonar 7 Producer and VSL works great with Sonar.  Unless you plan on mixing/mastering your music in a different environment (MIR, Altiverb, etc.) be sure to get the Producer Edition because it contains some nice sounding vintage sound processing plug-ins and converb impulses that will give your tracks some nice analog warmth.  The two tracks in my sig line were created using VSL in Sonar using Sonar's plug-ins if you would like to audition.  A down side to Sonar is that I had problems getting it's music notation application to work intuitively for my needs.  Subsequently, when I'm not playing the notes in, I use the piano roll view for my programing and never use the notation view which I miss because I'm kind of old school about that.  However, I use Sonar 7, things might be different with 8.5.  Maybe Cakewalk has improved on that.  Do you plan on just composing music or do you want to sync to visual media (film scoring, video games, etc.)?  Sonar allows to do that but I've never used it before so I can't comment on that.

    As for Cubase, I don't use Cubase so I'll let the Cubase users chime in on that but I understand that you can cross-platform with Cubase which might be useful to you.   

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    Hallo!

    Your computer seems up to the task for waht you are planing. it is pretty much what I am working on right now.

    As I only use Cubase, I cannot give you any balanced recommendation but keep in mind that Cubase is cross platform and Sonar is not.

    So , even if you change your hardware to mac you dont have to learn a whole new programme.
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    @jasensmith said:

    A down side to Sonar is that I had problems getting it's music notation application to work intuitively for my needs
     

    Thanks so much for your replies. I enjoyed listening to your samples. They sound great! I would like to compose with a video track sometimes so that is something to think about.

    I never thought abouit composing within the DAW. That of course would be much easier, but I assumed the notation capabilities were poor in both. I will need to take that into consideration also, but it sounds to me that there doesn't seem to be any differences between how the two operate with VSL.

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    As for your question about the different versions of Cubase, there's the full version, Cubase 5, a lightly trimmed down version, Cubase Studio 5, and the entry level one, Cubase Essentials 5.

    A detailed comparsion cheet is available at http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cubase/cubase5_featuredetails100.html
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     One common approach often used is to compose in a notation program and then import the files into a sequencer.  The tweaks that are possible in a good DAW simply are not possible - or very difficult - in notation programs.  If one researches the Sonar boards, its lack of decent notation remains a significant drawback, though it is quite fine for use as a DAW.

    It might be wise to test each DAW and attempt to figure out which one works best for you.  Although a specific DAW might meet the workflow needs of one person does not mean it is the best choice for another.
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    @Another User said:

    I never thought abouit composing within the DAW. That of course would be much easier, but I assumed the notation capabilities were poor in both. I will need to take that into consideration also, but it sounds to me that there doesn't seem to be any differences between how the two operate with VSL.

    One of the problems I had with Sonar's Music Staff view was that it would justify right the notes I entered on the staff in the measure (I'm sure there's a way to change that in the settings).  I'm used to Finale which allowed me to put the notes on the staff where ever I wanted them.  Also, I found it difficult to accurately copy and paste repeating phrases.  Again, I use Sonar 7 and perhaps Cakewalk has improved Sonar's Staff View in 8.5.

    I know that there are Sonar users that use Sonar to sync music to visual media but I don't use that feature so I don't know much about it.  Try searching/posting on Cakewalk's forum to get more information on that.
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    @noldar12 said:

     One common approach often used is to compose in a notation program and then import the files into a sequencer.  The tweaks that are possible in a good DAW simply are not possible - or very difficult - in notation programs.  If one researches the Sonar boards, its lack of decent notation remains a significant drawback, though it is quite fine for use as a DAW.

     

     Thanks for your reply.

    So it sounds like you're saying the notation capabilities between Sonar and Cubase should not be part of my decision making because either way they both fall way short of what I can do on Sibelius.

    Does anybody know if the articulations, tempo, etc. get tansfered along with the score when exporting music from Sibelius(or Finale) and importing into either Sonar or Cubase as a midfi file, or do you have to start editing from scratch?

    Thanks!
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     I do not have Cubase, so I cannot comment about its notatation from personal experience.  From other's comments, it seems that Cubase does have at least decent notation.  What I can say with certainty is that Sonar does not - its poor notation has been a long-standing issue on the Sonar forum.  Even notating and displaying triplets correctly is not currently possible in Sonar.  My own preference is to work in a notation program, and then use the sequencer to do the edits.  As a sequencer, Sonar is quite good.  In working with VSL, I program in all the articulation keyswitiches into the notation program using a separate staff line for each instrumental part (keeps things neater).  That is done after the piece is completed, as the first step of editing.  The file is then saved as a standard midi file, and opened in Sonar.

    Note that due to some personal RL physical limitations, my workflow is a often different from most others.  What is common with at least some others is the composing in notation, sequencing in a DAW.  Incidently, VSL generally recommends that one play the instrumental parts into the sequencer rather than copy the midi files.  If done well, it saves a great deal of editing.  Unfortunately, that is not an option for me.

    Note that every DAW has issues, and Cubase is not perfect either.  That is one reason it is best to try the various DAWS that are out there, and try to find out what works best for you.

    One notation program that has sought to integrate well with sample instruments is Notion.  It also has weaknesses, and IMO its notation output quality is not nearly as good as either Sibelius or Finale.  Nonetheless, it may also be worth exploring.
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    Regarding tempos, if the tempos have been specified, yes.  Human playback type tempo adjustments do not seem to transfer.  Tempo adjustments are one thing that a DAW excels at.  It is relatively easy to make very subtle gradual changes to midi data within the tempo track of a DAW that simply is not possible in a notation program.
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    @noldar12 said:

    Regarding tempos, if the tempos have been specified, yes.  Human playback type tempo adjustments do not seem to transfer.  Tempo adjustments are one thing that a DAW excels at.  It is relatively easy to make very subtle gradual changes to midi data within the tempo track of a DAW that simply is not possible in a notation program.

     

     Wow! Thanks so much for your help. You've given me a better understanding of how this process might unfold. Maybe I'll be contacting you in the near future to give me Sonar lessons!
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    @Lohena said:

     Wow! Thanks so much for your help. You've given me a better understanding of how this process might unfold. Maybe I'll be contacting you in the near future to give me Sonar lessons!

     

     Thanks for the comment.  In truth you would probably want someone more advanced than myself.  I am at a stage where I am still learning much myself - would not call myself an expert.