Convolution v outboard Lexicon

[jrm1]

I run 2 GS machines into my Mackie d8b via 16 audio channels. Reverb is delivered by a Lexicon PCM91. Audio tracking is via 8 channels of ProTools HD2. My working methods with VSL are centred around the idea of keeping the music MIDI-based until the very last minute - live, if you like. Tracking is reserved for live players, guitars, voice etc. The Lex is used in the traditional Aux send and return fashion (but returned down 2 hardware mixer channel strips instead of the aux return path).

As I understand it, the Waves and Altiverb convolution reverbs require you to pass all of the audio coming out of the PC's soundcards through the hardware mixer, then through the Digi convertors. The plug-in is inserted across these audio tracks. In this setup, the hardware mixer's channels are quickly swallowed up - all that is auditioned are the outputs of the Digi converters or 'tape returns'.

Am I missing something? Is there a way to use the MIR (when it emerges) in the old-fashioned outboard way? Or do I need to get as many Digi I/O channels as I have channels of audio coming out of my Gigastudio PCs?

Clearly the concept of convolution is superior to the Lexicons, but I'd like to know how to use a TDM plugin reverb in a more flexible way. Any help gratefully received.

[mathis]

I use my Samplitude Convolver as an Aux-FX. I don´t know too much about the other brands, but according to my wisdom it is not necessary to use a convolution reverb as an insert. Although theoretically I see some advantages in that.

[John DeBorde]

if i'm understanding you correctly, is there is some way you can set up a digital send/return thru your d8b into your TDM buss? thereby bypassing the converters. do you have your protools rig digitally connected to your mixer? or are you adding (potentially) unnecessary conversions to your audio stream. it's my understanding that you want to minimize conversions to avoid audio degradation.

there should be a way to route your giga pcs into protools and thru a conuvolution reverb along with whatever overdubs you might have tracked.

anyway, hope this makes sense.

and as for lexicon vs convolution, why not use both!

[Dietz]

There is no dogma telling us that we have_ to use convolution reverb as an insert effect. I for one prefer the classic send/return scheme with quite some amount of the dry signals in the mix. OTOH there _are_ a bunch of people with a different idea of sound, using only the wet, "convoluted" part for their mixes. YMMV :-]

****

Oh, BTW - I see a common misunderstanding regarding the idea of the upcoming MIR.e: You shouldn't consider this engine to be "just another reverb". Although the virtual realization of rooms and halls is one major aspect in this concept, the thing as a whole should be seen as a highly integrated mixing frontend for VSL instruments. - I'll tell you more when the time is right ;-]

All the best,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

[mathis]

Dietz, you make me despair! [:'(]

YMMV?
Your mummy makes vulgarities?
Your moustache murders vagabonds?
Yawed maharadschas mythologize Valhalla?
You madden magnificent vaginas?

[cm]

mathis, you might find this a never ending source for infos on TLAs and their relatives (besides some fun of course)
christian

[dpcon]

mathis,

Very, very, funny stuff.

Dave Connor

[jrm1]

[quote=John DeBorde]if i'm understanding you correctly, is there is some way you can set up a digital send/return thru your d8b into your TDM buss? thereby bypassing the converters. do you have your protools rig digitally connected to your mixer? or are you adding (potentially) unnecessary conversions to your audio stream. it's my understanding that you want to minimize conversions to avoid audio degradation.

The d8b is connected analog (for sample rates other than 44.1) and digitally (for 44.1K rate) to the Digi 96 I/O. Yesterday I tried recording digitally at 48K straight to harddrive but the audio was full of cracking noise on one channel. I set the desk's sample rate to 48K and all was OK - except all the samples were pitch-shifted! So until I hear of another way to record at 48K digitally straight to disk, I'll do that analogue.


I'm sure it's easy to combine untracked with tracked audio through the 96 I/O, but it still means I have fewer channels on the desk than I'd like. But maybe that's the price for using convolution.

And I wasn't thinking at all of getting rid of my Lexicon - I was just wanting to hear people's methods in using convolution.

I understand that the MIR project is being 'sold' as more than just a reverb. When will it be available?

[Dietz]

@mathis said:

Dietz, you make me despair! [:'(]

YMMV?
Your mummy makes vulgarities?
Your moustache murders vagabonds?
Yawed maharadschas mythologize Valhalla?
You madden magnificent vaginas?

:-] ... sorry ... this is what I got for 10 or 12 years on the 'net ...

/dietz

[Dietz]

@jrm1 said:

[...] I understand that the MIR project is being 'sold' as more than just a reverb. When will it be available?

Not just sold - built! :-]

We made very important development steps the las few weeks, so I hope we'll be able to announce a serious schedule later this year.

All the best,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

[John DeBorde]

@jrm1 said:

The d8b is connected analog (for sample rates other than 44.1) and digitally (for 44.1K rate) to the Digi 96 I/O. Yesterday I tried recording digitally at 48K straight to harddrive but the audio was full of cracking noise on one channel. I set the desk's sample rate to 48K and all was OK - except all the samples were pitch-shifted! So until I hear of another way to record at 48K digitally straight to disk, I'll do that analogue.

jrm1- if you're getting pitch shifted audio at 48k, one of the devices in your digital chain is still set to 44.1. you need to go thru and change the sample rate of every device in the digital chain-if they don't change automatically when you change the master clock. the crackling noise also sounds like you don't have everything slaved to one master, which is essential!

[jrm1]

John - I'll go back and check the sample rates. So far I'd only changed the Mackie d8b and the ProTools convertors. The sound cards - am I right in understanding they must be at 48k also?