Jeremyroberts, that's true: different use of the key indeed might requires different types of authorization. The Waves method sounds brilliant! Thus I'd like to use this forum to ask the Vienna people if they could do a step forward torward their "non-professional" users and consider that type of solution especially since I'm still convinced that watches or rings are not the right term of comparison for the licenses that we bought.

To Gianna:

unfortunately there is little reference to the Vienna key in the VSL manual at all, same for the license agreement: you'll only read about the licenses, that's it.

Regarding Steiberg: I've read awful things about the company on the forums and that's what always kept me from trying Cubase although some features such as the VST expression are quite interesting. But now  I'm glad hearing that someone has had a good experience :-)

Best,

Cesar

Well, fortunately I knew from my steinberg and YT experience to watch out for the dongle. I moved once and lost the YT one.

There is a forum, cubase.net which is basically unofficial, which has a somewhat tendentious relationship with the user base. Steiny's attitude toward the customer base is somewhat arrogant on the issue of bug fixes vs new features (the former doesn't always even happen) and it looks at times like marketing dept has a bit too much say in things. OTOH, people opining in the negative will post on the internet many times over those w. a positive POV. It may be that I'm just lucky with it, but every time I've had an issue, they were timely and helpful. It may be that someone writes them angrily, or in not the best style to read, and that gets waylaid. Something I learned from my father, to write in a business-like (concise) and polite manner when you want to get service.

Agree, very interesting discussion. Didn't know about this.

I will never in my life buy the cube och super package until there's a sort of a backup system! Can't understand how people have taken this huge risk!

@Martinz said:

I will never in my life buy the cube och super package until there's a sort of a backup system! Can't understand how people have taken this huge risk!

Martinz:

If you keep the dongle in a safe place, there is no risk. Else, insure it for its full replacement value (not what you paid, less so-called "depreciation" (which is silly when looking at the insured item - it doesn't depreciate, but the Euro does fluctuate against world currencies, and the true replacement cost is the Euro, not your local currency).

A buddy of mine used to keep his logic xskey on his regular keychain with his house and car keys -- never an issue -- but I thought he was insane for that.

IN MY OPINION, NEVER, never, never plug your dongles directly into a computer. ALWAYS, always use a hub or extender or dongle buddy. In my experience, many (most?) dongle failures are mechanical. Not that I've ever had one, just anecdotal... and would you know, the few failures that I've heard about were all due to physical stress. ADDITIONALLY -- with a dongle attached to your logic board, you risk damaging your computer each time you insert or remove, so I am VERy cautious -- and use a hub. Less contact with the dongle, cpu, etc...

Read:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul08/articles/dongles.htm

But DAMAGED dongles are not really an issue, since the company(s) will ALWAYS replace damaged auths if you have the dongle. I have never, EVER heard of a company that failed to restore auths (for free) if the dongle failed, and was returned to them. That is not really the issue. The issue is loss or theft. And the only solution from any company out there is Waves. And yes, I would support VSL if they provided a time-bombed solution with a "phone-home". But the privacy guys hate this. But so what? How many times in your life have you been without an internet connection for more than 90 days?

I would also agree to IP-specific use -- that is, I would tell VSL where I am using the library, and if it can't connect to the server, the software would time-bomb -- BUT, BUT - BUT, this better be FREAKING PERFECT, else mass exodus. And considering the "we can re-invent our own wheel" mentality of VSL web site, I would be very cautious before allowing VSL to do this.

MY points: there are many solutions, and none are perfect. VSL needs to protect their IP. The customers need to protect the value of their investment. How would you do this if you were VSL?

Right, but then why not just letting users choose between a "call-home" system and a "keep it in the vault" system?

I keep the Vienna key in my keychain and connect it directly to my laptop. I've never read of hub or "dongle buddies" in the VSL system requirements. I don't want to be slave of the key. I bought the product, I just want to use it simply and anywhere...why do they have to make me go through all these troubles for something that I've honestly purchased?

I think that a Waves-like system woudl be just fine for many users. An IP-specific system just sounds impossible to implement: some people don't have fixed IP addresses, plus I want to be able to use the software wherever I go. 

The truth is that, honestly, if I had known of all these key-related issues, I would have never spent my money on SE, that is the unfair part. I'm not saying it is a bad product cause it is not at all! but the Vienna key system is just not fair to the costumers: If I had seen a page like the one you've posted the link to on the Vienna website, well, I would have simply ran away...

A question, which copy protection do other libraries tipycally use?

@cesare.magri said:

A question, which copy protection do other libraries tipycally use?

Spectrasonics uses a challenge/response system. Works great - but "taking it with you" is essentially impossible, unless on a laptop.

Native Instruments has their own challenge/response system -- administered by thier proprietary "service center" application. Works fine UNTIL something goes wrong with the application, and you can't auth or de-auth until you solve the issue. I was unable to use NI products for more than a week once.

Synthogy (Ivory ) uses iLok

Most Avid (formerly Digidesign) products and 3rd parties that are designed for protools, use iLok.

Mach5 uses iLok

Part of what put Gigastudio out of business was the defection of most soundware developers because Giga failed to support copy protection. Remember, VSL launched in Giga format, and if Giga had adequate protection, do you suppose VSL would have stayed with them?

PS -- take the VSL key off of your keychain and treat it as the valuable item that it is. And don't plug directly into your laptop. You are asking for trouble.

Thanks for the tip Jeremyroberts, I think I'll do as you suggest and avoid plugging the key directly into the laptop and won't carry it around although I'm afraid this essentially means "stop using my program".

But I'm becoming more and more frustrated with my purchase :-(

Cesare

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

"protecting" the valuable key should not diminish your ability to enjoy using these sounds.

My 6-1/2 year old daughter enjoys playing her violin, but refused to take care of her instrument. She would leave it everywhere, except its case. She would never do what her teacher instructed her, re: bow maintenance and protecting the beautiful instrument. So we took it away from her. After a few weeks, she convinced me to allow her to play it, and she now treats her instrument as the valuable thing it is. Not to mention her joy when she composes new melodies! 

Don't let the copy protection ruin your experience.

However in our case nobody had instructed us on these delicate issues...

The thing is that everyone must assume that the dongle WILL break/disappear (things will always disappear, things always will break), and putting €9000 into a plastic thingy that will need to be replaced someday feels wrong. 

It may be like womens jewelry, but I wouldn't recommend my girlfriend to buy a necklace for €9000.

If there could be a way of having the licenses secure on a VSL server and the dongle, I would be more likely to save money for the cube or super package. 

How much do these dongle insurance cost? What do they exactly cover? Is it hard to get the money in case of loss?

Does any one have some experience with them?

P.S.: software insurance is not in the VSL software requirements either :-)

In order to block a dongle, you would have to have a system where periodically the dongle has to connect to the Internet in order for the licence to work. Some users wouldn't want to keep removing the dongle from their studio machiens for this purpose, particularly if everything is working perfectly and they never need to take the dongle on the road.

Just insure your software, like all the other studio equipment that you have.

DG

Right! And these people wouldn't need a "call-home" system, thus they could simply stick with the current authorization method. Other people who like to "take their dongle around" could instead get renewable licenses. Looks like the current synchrosoft system could very easily allow for this type of flexibility.

Cesare

@cesare.magri said:

Right! And these people wouldn't need a "call-home" system, thus they could simply stick with the current authorization method. Other people who like to "take their dongle around" could instead get renewable licenses. Looks like the current synchrosoft system could very easily allow for this type of flexibility.

Cesare

This suggestion has been made to Steinberg many times, and it even has been agreed that it's possible, but so far no dice. It has even been suggested that in the case of Steinberg software it would be possible to rent (incorrect use of English, but used to give clarity for Americans...!) software for short periods. Certainly if you only need an instrument for one project, it would be fantastic if you could just buy a limited period licence.

DG

But then why don't they implement such a system if users are so interested in it? Did they ever give an explanation?

@cesare.magri said:

But then why don't they implement such a system if users are so interested in it? Did they ever give an explanation?

Steinberg has never been good at communicating with users, and are usually so dogmatic about things that if the idea doesn't come from their collective brain trust it is not usually implemented.  [:(]

DG

Links to two similar discussions on the Syncrosoft key (one is mixed iLok/Syncrosoft):

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=242311&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10465

Does anyone have infos about the software insurance policies? and how much we are expected to spend to insure dongles?

Cesare

Honestly, I would say that these items should be covered under your home contents insurance, or if you own a business, as business contents insurance. Just ask your insurance company, and I would say that you probably just have to advise them of the dongle and the licenses as a specific advice, that these items are a part of the contents insured. Let them know the replacement cost, and what it is a plastic software licenser containing the license to use X software replacement cost up to the cost of a new purchase. - something like that. That makes sense to me.