Program Changes not working with VE Pro VST3 plugin

[Dan Selby]

Frustratingly, program changes don't work with the VST3 plugin but do work with the VST2 plugin. Is this likely to be fixed in the next update? Before I tear my template apart (again). Using Cubase 4 Thanks.

[DG]

@Dan Selby said:

Frustratingly, program changes don't work with the VST3 plugin but do work with the VST2 plugin. Is this likely to be fixed in the next update? Before I tear my template apart (again). Using Cubase 4 Thanks.

 

This is correct. There was a change in the spec that means that program changes won;t work in VST3. Nothing VSL can do about this, I'm afraid, so there is nothing to fix.

DG

[Abel]

@Dan

can't remember if Cubase4 has that, but in C5 there's the Input Transformer.

Example: program it to change all Program Change messages to Note Events in the lowest octave and then use, Key Switches in WEP instead of Program Change. Your workflow is gonna be exactly the same - i.e. you will be able to use P.Ch. to switch matrices etc. The Input Transformer has to be enabled for each midi track in Cubase, and you have a choice of either using a global or local settings. Hope this helps.

I've been trying to post a screenshot explaining how to do it, but I'm not sure how to attach a picture...

[pjak]

@Abel said:

Example: program it to change all Program Change messages to Note Events in the lowest octave and then use, Key Switches in WEP instead of Program Change. Your workflow is gonna be exactly the same - i.e. you will be able to use P.Ch. to switch matrices etc. The Input Transformer has to be enabled for each midi track in Cubase, and you have a choice of either using a global or local settings. Hope this helps.

This would work in order to use Program Change messages to switch matrices in VSL's instruments. But it will not work to switch banks in Native Instrument's Kontakt. My suggestion would be to add a transformation within VE Pro to translate CC messages into program change messages. (I think a global option to specify the CC to be translated will do it)

At least in Cubase one could add a midi transform to translate Program Change messages into Control Change messages (so even older projects that already use Program Change messages would work). VE Pro can then translate these back to Program Change messages.

Newer projects could use that Control Changes messages directly.

As a result one could use the VST3 version of VE Pro and still utilize Kontakt's instrument banks.

VSL, please consider to implement this! Shouldn't be too difficult.

PS: I think Kontakt 4 supports scripting on multi level. Maybe this can be used to implement the translation? But I heard there were compatibility issues with some libraries when Kontakt 3 was introduced, so this might not be a solution for older libs.

[Dan Selby]

Thanks for the replies. It is very odd that the program changes don't work in the VST3 spec. As pjak, suggested, I need program changes for switching articulations within banks in Kontakt 3.5, so Abel's suggestion will not work. Pjak: your idea is intruiging. So you are suggesting that one would put an input transformer in each track in Cubase that would convert program changes to the values of a particular unused continuous controller (80, for example). So a program change to number 17 would send a CC80 message with the value 17. VE Pro would then need to have an option built so that any continuous CC80 messages received, the values are converted back to program changes. I guess It would be a single but definable continuous controller within VE Pro - so the user can choose a CC that suits them. Is this something Vienna are considering implementing? If so, is it something that could be added fairly quickly? Thanks

[Mahlon]

 I'm just curious, but what did Steinberg come up with as an alternative to Program Changes in VST3? Did they replace it with a similar function?

Mahlon

[pjak]

@Dan Selby said:

So you are suggesting that one would put an input transformer in each track in Cubase that would convert program changes to the values of a particular unused continuous controller (80, for example). So a program change to number 17 would send a CC80 message with the value 17. VE Pro would then need to have an option built so that any continuous CC80 messages received, the values are converted back to program changes.

Exactly, that is what I had in mind. If you use a MIDI insert to transform Program Change to Control Change, then this will even work with existing projects, that were recorded with Program Changes. I think the input transformer will only work if you record new projects and use an external controller to feed in Program Changes.

Peter

[Abel]

@VSL Team

do you guys talk to Steinberg about this issue?

are they willing to cooperate?

[Paul]

Hi,

of course we are in contact with Steinberg, but there´s no way we can put pressure on them regarding this issue.

VST3 is "their" standard, and it has a lot of benefits. I´m sure that applications like VE PRO will make clear what might be missing, but you cannot expect changes over night.

Please feel free to contact my colleagues at Steinberg - the more input and requests they get, the better [:)]

Best,

Paul

[pjak]

Paul,

does VSL consider to implement to suggested CC mapping as a work around?

Peter

[Paul]

Hi Peter,

there are no plans to do that, sorry to say. We support the formats that are available. There are many issues on our to-do-list that have a higher priority, to be honest.

Thanks for your understanding!

Best,

Paul

[pjak]

@Paul said:

there are no plans to do that, sorry to say. We support the formats that are available. There are many issues on our to-do-list that have a higher priority, to be honest.

Hello Paul,

I must say I am disappointed you don't consider this. It would be relatively easy to implement. You would solve a problem for quite a few users. (BTW, I don't understand what you mean with "format" here)

But I am happy you finally took the time to tell us VSL's position.

Best regards,

Peter

[Dietz]

@pjak said:

[...] (BTW, I don't understand what you mean with "format" here) [...]

I think Paul meant to say "standard" (i.e. VST3).

[Paul]

Hi Peter,

@Another User said:

You would solve a problem for quite a few users.

We will keep on solving problems, it´s just that each day only has 24 hours.

Please read my initial response again, I have just said that right now there are no plans to add this feature [:)]

Best,

Paul

[Abel]

[quote=Paul]Please feel free to contact my colleagues at Steinberg - the more input and requests they get, the better

Who is the right person to contact at Steinberg? I believe, a generic support address won't do much good.

[DG]

@Abel said:

[quote=Paul]Please feel free to contact my colleagues at Steinberg - the more input and requests they get, the better

Who is the right person to contact at Steinberg? I believe, a generic support address won't do much good.

 

There is no right person. Forget contacting Steinberg. They will have no interest in changing their spec, as they believe that it is better than the old VST2 spec. You really have two choices:

1. Find out what the "improved" method of handling what used to be Program Changes is, and update your template.
2. Use the VST2 version of VE Pro.

DG

[pjak]

Hello VSL users,

In a previous post I suggested to translate CC into PC as a workaround. However, I thought this would only be possible with a multi script as supported by Kontakt 4 (which I don't have yet, and which might not work properly with some old libs).

But it seems there is an undocumented way to enable multi scripts even with Kontakt 2 and 3! So it should be possible to implement this translation within Kontakt 2 and 3 as well. If this is true, then we don't need any support by VSL to get it working.

In fact, there already exists a script, that is mentioned on the native instruments support forum, that claims to do this (don't know if VSL would allow me to post a link to native instruments forum, please let me know if it is OK)

Will look into it next weekend.

VST3 we are coming... [H]

Peter

[Paul]

Hi Peter,

we´d prefer to keep links to "experimental" scripts and programs not linked - of course everybody interested can contact you via PM!

Thanks for understanding!

Best,

Paul