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  3. Vienna and Logic 9
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    So far so good here as well.

    Maestro2be
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    Yes, it is safe to upgrade to logic 9. I am working with Logic 9 for 2 days in German and I am very happy. There are many many small improvements comparing to Logic 8 and I do not want to go back to L8.  Example: Logic crashed sometimes, so a crashed file was created, now Logic 9 first is warning you that your memory is nearly full, so you can go on working; then if your memory is full, Logic says that your memory is full and Logic is gonna be closed, BUT before that L9 gives me the chance to save the file before and opens the SAVE AS window; I love this option. Furthermore VI and VE works much better and faster under Logic 9, the first-loading time is much better than before; I am very sure that it will be optimized with SNOWLeopard. The VIENNA-team should be prepared for an 64 bit VI Engine for Intel-MAC at the same time when OSX.6SNOW will be released. The Bouncing in Logic is better and processed much cleaner than in L8. The Multiprocessor Ability in L9 is perfect. In L8 you need to group the busses to enhance the Multiprocessor Ability, now they have optimized that function, too. Be surprised of the new warped Impulses, they are so great and do not sound like a small and cheap effect impulse response like the factory impulses of Space-Designer of Logic 7 and 8.

    There are many small improvements you cannot see for the first view, but during your work you will find out.

    1 TIPP: If you do not need a German Manual, you can order the English Version in case you have L8 in German installed, then L9 will actualize in GERMAN Language and keeps L8 beside on your computer. Now Logic Pro in your dock is automatically L9 and under applications you will find Logic Pro (as version 9) and Logic Pro 8 (as version 8). I did that because I couldn't wait and I was not completely satisfied with L8, Now I am.

    Have success.

    Nico.
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    Logic 9 is far more stable with VSL.  Previous problems with crashes have all but disappeared.  Am about to move one of my clients to Logic 9 and he's in the middle of a huge VSL project.  Logic 9 has little new function in it for composers compared to Logic 8 but the stability is enough o persuade me to recommend it now.
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    Pete,

    Can you let us know how the move over goes for your friend and your current progress with 9?  I used it shortly and VSL seemed much better, but my other plugs didn't like it so I ended up back on 8 (have a cloned hard drive).  I don't mind using 8 but lately it's really unstable with VSL.  Plus 9 was taking way more resources then 8 for a basic job (500mb per project more) just to run it.  On a MacBookPro with 2GB RAM max, that's kind of painful.

    I sure wish I could remember the exact versions before when things were rock stable (something like 10.5.6 and 8.0.2 with an older VI/VE).

    Maestro2be
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    All I can tell you is that there could be some problems with third-party plugs. Logic 8.02 is not more stable than L9. I am one of the lucky users who can work with the Gold Master Build of Snow Leopard 10a432 over the developer base and I would never go back to L8. I have no more memory problems and now Logic goes so fast I never thought it could happen, so I am very sure that some of your problems will be solved after changing to Snow Leopard in September. Now Vienna must release (VERY VERY IMPORTANT) the 64bit versions of VI and VE, then it should work perfectly. Logic 9 is optimized for working on Intel-Macs. If you are user of PPC-Mac you can work with L9 generally, but for working optimally you should stay with OSX.5.8 and Logic 8.0.2... but be sure that L9 is not the main reason why you would have problems with your stability, so please check all your plugs for compatibility. The memory access could be a problem....

    Best,

    Nico.
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    After reading what you typed there I very much look forward to this new team (snow leaopard and logic 9).  I will be at Apple the morning of release for my copy :).

    I definitely agree that 3rd party plugs will be an issue but shouldn't be for to long.  With the release of logic 9 they are I am sure already somewhat working on it.  Also, with SL right around the corner I am sure they are working towadrs their 64bit versions.  My macbook pro is an intel mac so I should be ok there.

    Even with a 2GB limitation on my Macbook Pro, I will have 32GB of RAM on my VE Pro machine so I should be good to go with it's release.  Thanks for your input on this.

    Maestro2be
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    Thought I'd come back to those who asked.  

    Logic 9 much more stable with VI/VE.  Things seem quicker too, though that is subjective.  

    Next week, I'm building a system for a client which will have Snow Leopard, Logic 9, all the usual goodies and, here's the thing that I hope will be a killer, 512 GB of SSD.  Things look very promising with it so far and I'll report on progress with that in another thread when all is well.  

    I have a second client looking for a similar setup so that will be three systems I'll have built (my own and the two for my clients).  I should have a feel for everythig then.  

    One thing I haven't had a chance to try out yet is the new VE Pro.  I'm going to order a copy but it's too soon to put that onto a client's machine.  Again, I'll report back when I'm done.

    Pete
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    I upgraded to 9 yesterday and all seemed well.  Logic 9 started, loading the last song I worked on with Logic 8.  This song contained Ivory and Spectrasonics Trilogy wrapper as well as many Vienna instruments in EXS24.

    There is a problem with the Vienna instruments which use Performance Tool. These all loaded with THROUGH in the VSL part or the edit page.  Changing this manually to HorizonLegato helped with string patches, but the two wind patches were playing in the wrong octaves.  I re-installed a new download of Performance Tool, but nothing changed, so I had to defer to Logic 8 to continue my work.  All instruments worked correctly again in Logic 8.

    I have filed a report to VSL and await a reply.  Anyone else had this?

    Ian Lynn

    MacPro 8 core 3 GHz, Digi 002R, OS 10.5.8
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    Hi,

      I recently bought an older MacPro, 2.66ghz, 16gigRAM, OSX 10.5.8 w/Ensemble interface and Logic 8.  I had been using a MacBookPro, thought the change would get rid of some of my overload/freezing problems.  Sort of does, but overloads are still rampanty in many pieces I'm working on.  So I'm very tempted to get Snow Leopard and Logic 9 & see if that doesn't smooth things out.  Most people are reporting some performance improvement with the newer set up.  Besides VI, I use Spectrasonics Ominisphere and Stylus RMX.  Wondering if anyone has a similar set up and can report on Logic 9/Snow Leopard w/ the Spectrasonics stuff.  Also wondering if there are driver issues, etc. to worry about.  

      Thanks guys.  All best.                Tom 
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    Hi Tom

    With the exception of your Ensemble I'm running an identical system so will also be interested in any feedback re upgrading to Logic 9/Snow Leopard.

    Hopefully it will improve performance some and make up for the fact that our "64bit" Macs will be unable to run in 64bit mode unless Apple provide our 2-3 year old antiques with a firmware upgrade.

    Was looking forward to overcoming the memory limitation with VE Pro but we now appear to be at the mercy of Apple- I'm sure they'd rather we bought a new machine. [:(]

    Colin
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    Colin,  I remember talking to you when I was considering "updating" to my MacPro.  Will check with Spectrasonics to make sure there are no upgrade problems with them.  Assuming it's okay, I'll try Logic 9/Snow Leopard.  Every little bit of performance improvement helps...I guess.

             Cheers,     Tom
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    I am working with Spectrasonics, L9 and OSX.6 for 1 month. I got seed-build 432A and bought L9 in English. Due to my L8 was in German, L9 was installing German version with English DVD. So I have no good news concerning your performance situation. L8 is working more stable with Spectrasonics than L9, especially Omnisphere needs much memory. NOW Stylus works great after updating to 1.90e, so I can use the tripple of instances than before. I am sure that spectrasonics is working beside Trillian on a Snow-Leopard-ready version for Omnisphere. Trillian is a real 64-bit machine coming in october 2009.

    Nico.
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    @ct1961 said:

    Was looking forward to overcoming the memory limitation with VE Pro but we now appear to be at the mercy of Apple- I'm sure they'd rather we bought a new machine. 

    No waiting or mercy needed. VE Pro runs fine even under Leopard in 64-bit on any Core2Duo or more recent Intel Mac. In fact, it will run in 64-bit even on PPC, even if we don't officially support it.
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    Dear Martin!

    I think that it is the right decision to develop VSL-Software 64-bit in direction Intel. PPC was a great platform, but PPC-Users have to understand that Intel-Mac's first coming out was at the end of 2005, so quite 4 years. I understand that there are so many reasons to keep on previous PPC-platform, but Apple will also release a next big update for Logic 9 that is just for Intel and 64-bit because all AU-Plug-developers are currently working on a 64-bit Version to go right with Apple's step into the future.

    At the moment Logic 9 works with PPC, but that is just a question of time when Apple will stop the support for PPC in Logic 9 because they say in its description that you need an Intel-MAC. All PPC-Users can be happy at the moment that L9 is also working with PPC, but they cannot hope that Apple will also support PPC-Platforms for further updates in the future.

    I need a solution for the memory limit and 64 bit seems to be the possibility to solve this problem.

    Windows is not an Alternative system for me to work, I switched from Windows to Mac in 2005 and I never wanna go back, but I am looking forward to get a 64-bit-working software of Vienna for Mac OSX as well as you have already developed for Windows.

    Go on with that, VSL, you are on the right way. Thanks for your developments.

    Nico. 
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    I would like to offer a couple of points here: When the Intel machines first came out, the highest quad PPC Mac Pro was still the most powerful machine around and for a while. Additionally, Apple had heavily advertized its 64-bit processing capability boasting about the computer's potential longevity, addressing professionals obviously and not just Internet surfers and Word users.Therefore, as consumers, I don't think we should be taking alleged technological obsolescence for granted. Four years is not enough usage for what would have been then a ca.€5000 machine (including extra RAM and ROM). Clock speeds have not advanced that much since, plus that computer's 64-bit capability would render it much faster than it used to be, and if not state-of-the-art, still a very viable solution for modern standards of work. I stand to be corrected (BUS speeds, cache, etc.), but I mean this post as a more general comment on consumer attitudes towards technology-companies. For my money, €5000 is way too much to be parked on a bulky machine for just Farcebook and games usage, even if someone has already made that money twice over by using it professionally.

    Finally and lightheartedly, lest we forget, it is still the only powerful machine that can still run OS 9.x, which I still love (despite its Extensions nightmares). 
  • M
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    Errikos,

    I hope you read my post correctly. VE Pro runs both as 32-bit and 64-bit on a PPC as well. We will not officially promote this feature however, since actively supporting too many architectures can be a nightmare for developers and support staff, especially for a small company such as ours.
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    @ct1961 said:

    Was looking forward to overcoming the memory limitation with VE Pro but we now appear to be at the mercy of Apple- I'm sure they'd rather we bought a new machine. 

    No waiting or mercy needed. VE Pro runs fine even under Leopard in 64-bit on any Core2Duo or more recent Intel Mac. In fact, it will run in 64-bit even on PPC, even if we don't officially support it.

    Hi Martin

    Thanks for the reply and a brief glimmer of hope!

    Unfortunately the early Mac Pros have CoreDuo rather than Core2Duo processors and have seen it stated with some authority that they won't be able to run 64bit apps unless Apple do provide an upgrade.   [:'(]

    Colin
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    @MS said:

    Errikos,

    I hope you read my post correctly. VE Pro runs both as 32-bit and 64-bit on a PPC as well. We will not officially promote this feature however, since actively supporting too many architectures can be a nightmare for developers and support staff, especially for a small company such as ours.

    Although I posted here, I was directing my comments to fellow users about Apple's practices - not the VSL's - and made general comments about obsolescence.
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    @ct1961 said:

    Was looking forward to overcoming the memory limitation with VE Pro but we now appear to be at the mercy of Apple- I'm sure they'd rather we bought a new machine. 

    No waiting or mercy needed. VE Pro runs fine even under Leopard in 64-bit on any Core2Duo or more recent Intel Mac. In fact, it will run in 64-bit even on PPC, even if we don't officially support it.

    Hi Martin

    Thanks for the reply and a brief glimmer of hope!

    Unfortunately the early Mac Pros have CoreDuo rather than Core2Duo processors and have seen it stated with some authority that they won't be able to run 64bit apps unless Apple do provide an upgrade.   [:'(]

    Colin

    In my comments I forgot about the early Core Duo chips. I have - what was an expensive iMac which will be gathering Internet dust sporting that chip, but I don't understand your comment about an "upgrade"... You mean that it would be possible to make a Core Duo chip work in 64 bits?
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    @Errikos said:

    In my comments I forgot about the early Core Duo chips. I have - what was an expensive iMac which will be gathering Internet dust sporting that chip, but I don't understand your comment about an "upgrade"... You mean that it would be possible to make a Core Duo chip work in 64 bits

    Yes - this has been posted in several mac forums. Apple, if they so choose, can provide an upgrade to the firmware that will allow the Core Duo based Mac Pros to run in 64bit. Here's hoping..

    Colin