"Stuck" notes with Finale and VSL. Partial solution.

[A.S.]

I've had some problems with stuck notes (in my current piece mainly string harmonics) when using Finale 2010 and VE. I currently have a setup with Finale sending MIDI via IAC-buses to VE standalone (two instances). First, I thought this might be connected to IAC-buses.

After some research I think I found the culprit of this particular problem. It's actually not connected to IAC-buses as far as I can tell.

One part of the problem is that Vienna is using two ways of switching between patches: 1. Keyswitches (like GPO) and 2. Mod Wheel (CC#1)

I have constructed a completely new set of HP prefs for the Vienna SE+ strings and the download woodwinds and brass. All articulations/techniques that are supported by HP is actually changing like they should. I also set "Dynamic approach for sustaining instr." -> Expression CC#11 + Velocity

But here comes the tiny, tiny problem. To trigger a string harmonic in Vienna with Finale and HP the keyswitch is D0 and CC#1=127. BUT finale reverts to CC#1=0 just before the harmonic ends! This patch-change during the last millisecond(?) of the sustained harmonic causes the stucked notes. (see second attached picture. A screenshot of a finale-file imported to Logic.)

The only workaround I have come up with so far is to replace one of the patches in the first horizontal row (where CC1=0) with the string harmonic patch. This way it doesn't matter if Finale reverts to CC1=0 too early.

If anyone could think of a better solution I would be most grateful.

/A

[andi]

Hello Albert!

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Unfortunately I don't have a better solution at the moment.
Did you also try it with Vienna Ensemble directly loaded in Finale (without the IAC bus)?
Does it behave the same way?

Maybe you should report that to the Finale guys, as there is not much we can change about this behaviour from Finale.

Best,
Andi

[A.S.]

Hi Andi,

@Another User said:

Maybe you should report that to the Finale guys, as there is not much we can change about this behaviour from Finale.

If I have time next week I may send an e-mail to Robert P. about this since this looks like a HP problem. I doubt that MM Tech Support has the Vienna SE+ strings for example? (I don't know if Robert has them either to be honest).

Albert

[andi]

Hi Albert!

The Makemusic Tech support team has a Special Edition PLUS, as well as Robert Piechaud.

Best,
Andi

[mathis]

That?s a very interesting observation. I have the problem with stuck notes with Sibelius and cannot pin them down yet. Maybe this points to some new path.

[William]

"To trigger a string harmonic in Vienna with Finale and HP the keyswitch is D0 and CC#1=127."

This makes no sense to me.  You do not use a controller AND  a keyswitch for changing one parameter.  This sounds like a keyswitch being thwarted by instantaneous chase controllers. 

[michael.matthews]

You use both a controller and a keyswitch if you have a VE set up using both of these. For example, violin legato might be KS C# and modwheel setting 0. Snap pizz. might be KS A and modwheel setting 127. To switch from one to the other you would need to send both KS and controller data. This could be avoided by only using KS settings (this is, using a one-dimensional array in VE).

Michael

[William]

Well, of course, that is obvious.  Switching between horizontal vs. vertical matrices using both keyswitches and CCs.  I do that all the time and did not mean that. 

I am talking about having a single cell controlled by two different controller/keyswitch effectors.  That is what this problem sounds like - the instantaneous switching back to a different articulation is reminiscent of chasing controller conflicts.  In fact, now that I think of it, I have had that exact thing happen -   I negelected to change a controller, and was on the wrong vertical matrix.  That would be similar to what is happening here.

Though this original post is not clear at all, so perhaps that has nothing to do with it.  Somehow though, a problem deep within the code of Finale sounds rather unlikely.

[michael.matthews]

Then I misunderstood your post. This issue Albert has brought up here, and which I have experienced as well, seems to have something to do with a problem in Finale Human Playback regarding the exact time point when keyswitch and controller data are sent relative to the start and end points of a note, particularly when it is necessary to sent both a keyswitch and a controller value between notes, as the the case of having to send, say, KS value 26 and CC1 value 127 (virtually) simultaneously.

Michael