@Uncle D said:

I vote for any solution that does not require these things! But if I have to choose? I have an iLok and a Synchrosoft. The iLok just sits there and works. The synchrosoft needs updates all the time and VSL takes minutes just to load in Logic: I expect Synchrosoft to be the problem. It's too late now but I would never buy VSL again just because of this. The sounds are great but the copy protection shouldn't be our problem!

Why would Syncrosoft need updates all the time? Providing you don't change anything, it should be fine using the version you installed. Maybe you updated some other software and forgot about that.

As far as loading time, there are three issues:

1. Licence scanning. Takes a longer time in OSX, but only around 4 seconds in Windows
2. Content scanning. Takes around the same time in Windows and OSX (for me around a minute).
3. Sample loading. This will depend on a number of things, but they are all hardware related.

The only one that is a pain is number 2, but you only have to do this once a day, it is no real hardship. I don't see why it is such an issue to some people. I'm sure that it takes the kettle almost as long to boil for that first cup of coffee. [;)]

DG

I may have mentioned this already, but it takes me about 15 minutes to startup VE or VI due to the license and content scanning issue.

It took up to 25 minutes before the recent updates that made things more efficient.

I suspect this is because my old computer, aside from being probably the oldest of anyone on this forum, uses USB 1.1. No one ever confirmed this.

If it still takes this long once I finally get a new computer, I will know it is strictly a function of the licenses, and I have a lot as I used the DL libraries as a way of incrementally buying into the DVD collections/expansions.

It is for this reason that I wish VSL offered a way to consolidate licenses once someone has, for example, all of the Keyboard collections -- or at least all of the ones offered as a bundle currently (since any sub-grouping might potentially add new content libraries, whether download or DVD, later on).

I can't imagine that being much different from replacing a demo license with a fully paid license -- although I can't remember if that's how things work on eLicenser (it is how they work on iLok).

I am a Mac user, and PPC at that. I used to have more trouble with Synchrosoft than iLok, but both have gotten better. At this point, I rarely have trouble with either (technically), though sometimes the eLicenser key has to be re-plugged to a different USB port to be recognised. Certain vendors sometimes mess up their iLok licensers.

 I prefer Vienna Key over all the other means of software protection (exept for PG Music Bandinabox that actually doesn't have one).

When I was using Gigastudio I have changed a lot of SO Hard disks and each time I had to ask for a new number.

And, more than everything, it is too good being able to use my software on which PC i want!

I have to add my vote to the Syncrosoft Sufferers, in a big way. At this moment I'm afraid to to the math and counting the minutes/hours of sitting around and waiting for the authentication restarting and other troubleshooting a system that works sometimes but not other times. Maybe the time=money adds up to be more expensive than the already expensive Vienna product itself.

Here are a few observations.
1) It seems that most of the problems happens on the Mac side
2) An app reporting a licensing issue when it just worked before a reboot is just plain ridiculous.
3) Having the Error window popup in the background behind other windows is just bad programming (adding additional hours of lost productivity)
4) Having to wait 5-10 minutes after a reboot for authentication the Libraries is just mind boggling. Who decided that this is acceptible for an enduser that spend already $10k+ on a product. Just assume that all of your customers are thieves...
5) If it is true that Syncrosoft is the better copy protection than iLok, then that would be another case of putting the burden of battling piracy on the shoulders of the users.

Honestly, I don't have much hope that VSL is considering the Syncrosoft problmens an issue to take take action. The same way they persist on not to change the "unacceptable hack" with the Key Focus of their VI plugin in Logic Pro. - or that incompatible Browser issue in Safari when posting on this forum ...

Syncrosoft has been a disaster over here too (I use a Mac), same problems as described by previous users. Been using iLok since ca 2000 when I bought Nuendo and have lots of software (Waves, URS, Altiverb) that use the iLok: never ever a problem. 

Yet I prefer software without a dongle. That's why I have decided to follow an anti-dongle policy with my investments in software. I think companies like Spectrasonics, Native Instruments and FXPansion have shown that there are viable alternatives without the hassle that come with dongles. 

@EwaldK said:

Syncrosoft has been a disaster over here too (I use a Mac), same problems as described by previous users. Been using iLok since ca 2000 when I bought Nuendo [...]

For the sake of completeness: Nuendo uses a Syncrosoft/eLicenser key since Day One.

I use a mac, a new one, and I have experienced no big issues with the vienna key. I had one issue with ILok using EWQL Play, but that was just a confusing way new to me, in that it required an actual account with iLok having nothing to do with the EW serial #. it happened at a time where that engine actually didn't really even work on an intel Mac, so...

OSX.5.6 had some syncrosoft driver issues which affected cubase start up, which was solved in every case here by installing their driver again, but that issue was sorted for me with 5.7. The way steinberg/syncrosoft activates a key is easy for me, I'm used to it, and it all happens really quick here.

Using USB 1.1, shouldn't be done if you don't like waiting, really it's not adequate for the task,

It does appear that there are issues with Synchrosoft on the Mac platform. I have encountered many of the problems noted above during day to day VSL use. Never had a problem with iLOK so perhaps this is the weapon of choice for Mac.

Non of the Synchrosoft issues have been a deal breaker - just niggling. The most irritating is the initial boot time. Yes it's only a boiled kettle as DG points out but a watched Kettle never boils particularly when there's an orchestra sitting there waiting for your computer to boot as VI has just crashed (and it does when it's near the memory limit!)

Julian

@julian said:

.......particularly when there's an orchestra sitting there waiting for your computer to boot as VI has just crashed (and it does when it's near the memory limit!)

Julian

I guess that when 64bit VE hits OSX this will be a thing of the past. I'm sure you're looking forward to that. [:D]

DG

Hi Civilization 3,

Was viewing the comments on this post.  I run an 8-core Mac and have experienced many issues having to reboot due to Syncrosoft issues.  I should say that I assume their Syncrosoft issues because when everything locks up, there is a square image on my screen under the sequencer window...sometimes it just a white square other times it has Syncrosoft Error messages on it.  I don't know if it is because I'm up again memory or not.  I kinda thought that may be the case.

One question...  I use Logic, Pro Tools and Cubase 5.  When using Logic or Pro Tools LE, the fans on my Mac run at a low, quiet pace.  When I start Cubase, a few seconds later, the fans go into high gear.  It's like an airplane taking off.  Then awhile later they will back down for a minute or so, then start back up again.

Do you experience this?

I spoke with Cubase support and they advised that Cubase 5 is not support for 8-core Intels yet.  That seems strange to me but they said that I would have to wait for the next (post snow leopard) release before Cubase is supported on the 8-core Macs.

@Chuck Green said:

Hi Civilization 3,

Was viewing the comments on this post.  I run an 8-core Mac and have experienced many issues having to reboot due to Syncrosoft issues.  I should say that I assume their Syncrosoft issues because when everything locks up, there is a square image on my screen under the sequencer window...sometimes it just a white square other times it has Syncrosoft Error messages on it.  I don't know if it is because I'm up again memory or not.  I kinda thought that may be the case.

One question...  I use Logic, Pro Tools and Cubase 5.  When using Logic or Pro Tools LE, the fans on my Mac run at a low, quiet pace.  When I start Cubase, a few seconds later, the fans go into high gear.  It's like an airplane taking off.  Then awhile later they will back down for a minute or so, then start back up again.

Do you experience this?

I spoke with Cubase support and they advised that Cubase 5 is not support for 8-core Intels yet.  That seems strange to me but they said that I would have to wait for the next (post snow leopard) release before Cubase is supported on the 8-core Macs.

Yep the square box! a common issue I fear. Just had it in fact - I accidentally launched Logic 9 on my MacBook Pro which runs Snow Leopard and as the Syncrosoft dongle wasn't in place the Logic AU authorisation (first time i'd launched Logic on this computer in Snow Leopard) crapped out, crashing Vienna Ensemble and sending LCC wild with the resulting white box. The only way forward from there is a re-boot - vicious little thing is the e-licencer!

Julian

Yes, I get the rectangular white outline of the VE opening window. That is the end of the line, and a reboot is the only way out. This has been happening for years. I still get regular "a license cannot be found...etc." messages. Normally at least once a day. Sometime a log out will work, sometimes a restart is necessary. Sometimes it seems to have to do with whether I have launched any other application prior to VE, but this may be delusional on my part. I always get the latest LCC and OS, but nothing seems to fix it. Very irritating.

Michael

Yea,

I think that I was one of the first ones to get the 8-core Mac when they first came out.  During the same week, I bought every Vienna Library that was available and the rest since.  I noticed issues right way and started to identify them with tech support.  I really thought that the Vienna Team would step up and solve them.  One time I was asked to contact Syncrosoft directly if I wanted assistance ( go figure ).  Then after a year I started to complain on this forum and tech support.  The last year I've just given up complaining and choked it up to a $10,000 + learning experience.  It's like everything that I've identified previously, of which many more people now (more have purchased the 8-core Macs) are experiencing have fallen on death ears....

Maybe now with the increased numbers, someone at VSL will begin to listen and do something about it!  I can only hope.....

One other thing....

Edger's early post is right on!!!  Once I purchased all the libraries, the increased time to start-up, to me was very unacceptable.  All I could think was why should the customer have to pay dearly in productivity time so that the Library Supplier can protect their investment?  What about the end-customers investment?  I suppose the issue really didn't seem big to VSL in the beginning because there was not many MacPro 8-cores in the field.  The PC guys farmed-up their 64-bit machines and pressed on only having to turn them on once in the beginning of their session.

The MacPro 8-cores guys (who invested significantly in a single machine -- 1 machine cost approx the same as 4 PCs) had to go through the long boot-up process many times in a day due to the other issues (i.e. Syncrosoft) that have been previously mentioned there by making this issue more significant to the Mac 8-core user.

At least now, I don't feel like I was the lone odd-ball complainer....

 I also have a Mac pro 8-core but I use it with windows 64 bit to get the most from VSL.You have 10.000 dollars of libraries and I can't imagine how you could enjoy them with the limits of leopard.

Windows or OSX are not the best either. Try to get the most from both Operating systems and you will be happier.

Windows is not so worse[8-|]...

Not even an apple to apple comparison Dietz.  Nuendo is a single application looking for a single license.  It seems that multiple license structure (as implemented with VSL libraries, Suit, Ensemble, etc) presents a major issue for the end-user from both a launch time and on-going system stability during a session.  The really gets-ya is the more libraries you purchase the worse everything gets.  At least, that's been my experience.

I hear ya Sergio....  I have been considering do just that.  I was hoping Snow Leopard would solve the issues and I could stay with the apple OS now that I've taken the time to learn it.  Was a PC guy prior to the switch a couple of years ago.  I'm going to give it another month or so then make the decision.

In the interim,  I been using EASTWEST and Miroslav until VSL and Apple get this debunkel figured out.  At least for now, I've been really enjoying writing music again with a stable, productive system.......

Thanks for the advice.

@Chuck Green said:

Hi Civilization 3,

Was viewing the comments on this post.  I run an 8-core Mac and have experienced many issues having to reboot due to Syncrosoft issues.  I should say that I assume their Syncrosoft issues because when everything locks up, there is a square image on my screen under the sequencer window...sometimes it just a white square other times it has Syncrosoft Error messages on it.  I don't know if it is because I'm up again memory or not.  I kinda thought that may be the case.

One question...  I use Logic, Pro Tools and Cubase 5.  When using Logic or Pro Tools LE, the fans on my Mac run at a low, quiet pace.  When I start Cubase, a few seconds later, the fans go into high gear.  It's like an airplane taking off.  Then awhile later they will back down for a minute or so, then start back up again.

Do you experience this?

I spoke with Cubase support and they advised that Cubase 5 is not support for 8-core Intels yet.  That seems strange to me but they said that I would have to wait for the next (post snow leopard) release before Cubase is supported on the 8-core Macs.

Cubase isn't optimal as far as this machine, it's true. I have bought Logic in fact. But, it's only noticeable for me as far as, I think my latency should be significantly better with vstis. With VE only it's not so much a problem, but a couple instances of Kontakt and BFD2 - plugins the normal way - and it's tough to get the action I require.

The syncrosoft problem I was having was Cubase wasn't seeing the key, and I would have to log out and back in sometimes. With a goodly amt of inserts in VE, it does take a while for a project to load. Activating a project when another project is open, and one of them uses VE (let alone 2) and Kontakt multiple instances, that can be a problem, Cubase trying to load both at the same time it seems like. So, I quit Cubase in these situations now. The worse troubles I'm seeing here, I don't experience really.