Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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  • G
    G

    I listened to that track, it was fun how you edited the old and new piano on the same track, I believe I played the old version as well.

    Sometimes it's not on the spot we can appreciate the differences, our ear needs time. As for me, I cannot bear to listen to the old version after having done the new one. I compared it to some versions on itunes, it's definitely comparable, dynamics, timbre, contrasts etc...  Another thing, I don't mind listening to the new version over and over, that's probably because of the subtle contrasts between the notes.

    For the first time I have a piano lib I can enjoy improvising on, I did this piece, Heart Thoughts in the product info page: http://vsl.co.at/en/211/442/478/1701/1705/1308.htm  there is no way this could of been done without velocity flexibility of the Vienna Imperial. Also just want to mention the sus pedal, on any other piano lib you could leave the sus ped through out the piece and it hardly has any effect, with the Vienna Imperial you have to change it just like a real piano. I could go on but to me it's a no brainer.

    I'm sorry I didn't see anything about half pedal.
  • K
    K
    You're right, I also thing that it takes some time to find nuances and get used to them so much that you cannot return to the old version. But it's a pity if half-pedaling is not present, because it's quite convenient for example for ending a song - increasing the fading down, but not cutting at once.
  • JBacalJ
    JBacalJ

     Excellent new demos, Guy.   I really enjoyed your interpretations.   The Tchaikovsky is one of my all-time favorite pieces and you really kept me listening with your performance.  Exciting dynamics and wonderfully elastic and Romantic phrasing.

    Best,

    Jay
  • F
    F

    Ah, new demos!  Great, shows off the versatility of the piano.  Would still love to hear more Jazz and Pop style demos.
  • D
    D

    Thanks Guy for the Tchai 1 and Chopin demo !

    now i am badly need the Imperial in my gear !

    Thanks Herb and all the Vienna team for this great achievement in the world of virtual instrument.

    DaN[:D]
  • R
    R

    Having trained as a concert pianist  in my youth, I can tell you that whilst this is nearly as good as it gets (so far) it still lacks considerably the the organic quality of a real piano. The thing that really lets it down is the lack of half pedalling.

    Robert John Godfrey
  • D
    D
    last edited
    last edited

    @RJG_25852 said:

    Having trained as a concert pianist  in my youth, I can tell you that whilst this is nearly as good as it gets (so far) it still lacks considerably the the organic quality of a real piano. The thing that really lets it down is the lack of half pedalling.

    Robert John Godfrey

    come on...give me a break about half pedaling...you are asking to much..

    Imperial got the best sustain pedalling in the virtual piano world ...who care about half pedalling...

    why do you need half pedalling in a virtual piano ? 

    regards

    DaN
  • K
    K
    Because when many notes are sounding and you want to make them quiter a little bit to continue, but without sudden cut-off, you release half of the pedal. If it wasn't that useful, Korg wouldn't place this feature in the simplest piano SP-250. Surprisingly, there are more than 0 and 127 levels (namely 0, 38, 74 and 127) in this budget piano. You may consider it useless unless you try it and get used to it.
  • O
    O

    I can't think of a single serious pianist that doesn't use partial pedalling techniques during the bulk of their playing.  Hell, Horowitz made an artform out of that aspect alone.  It is in fact an essential part of playing much of the repertoire. 

  • K
    K
    last edited
    last edited
    I made a short test of resonances and half-pedalling.


    The test consists of 3 parts:

    PART1: sympathetic resonance

    An almost silent note A2 followed by staccato notes A3, E3 and A1 at 2.3s, 6.1s and 9.2s respectively, that should make the A2 string to resonate.

    PART2: overall resonance + half-pedalling

    A few notes struck at full pedal should make a reverb-like sound, although any instance of reverb is turned off.
    Between 36.8s and 40.1s the note should fade out, or at least increase fading out more rapidly than earlier because of the half-pedal. There should not be a sudden cut at 40.1s, because the note should be already silent (of course not due to too short samples).

    PART3: just another test of resonances with full pedal.


    I attach two versions (made by Pianoteq 3 and Ivory Boesendorfer), as well as the midi file. My opinion is that Pianoteq is a master of resonances, however its single notes sound much worse than Ivory's.
    Now I'm really curious how does it work with Vienna Imperial: is it as ingenious as they say it is? Guy, could you please record this midi with Vienna Imperial? Thanks in advance!

    attached files
  • G
    G

    I could do it, but bear in mind you are not limited to one type of resonance, you have flexibility in that regard, aside from the piano position, (close, player and distant) you could alter the resonance in some respects, mainly with the "sympathetic" option, you decide how much of it you like.
  • K
    K
    In both (Pianoteq and Ivory) I used the most standard option (the one that the plugin starts with) with only a change of turning of any reverb.
    Probably the close position is the best one for such a test. When it comes to resonance sliders, it's always tricky. For example in Ivory you have a knob to turn, but it makes a very artificial effect. How about posting a recording with the standard settings and some increased resonance?
    It all may seem stupid, but everything sounds great on prepared recordings, but when you start playing it, you find the hidden disadvantages and drawbacks. From my experience: Akoustik Piano sounds bad on samples and while playing, Pianoteq sounds better, but still far to ideal on samples, however occurs really responsive, Ivory sounds almost great on recordings but does not give the possibility to play with (just plays the samples), and now Vienna Imperial: sounds great on recordings, but how it feels under your own fingers? You may say that it's great, hoever I have heard opinions saying that there's nothing better than Akoustik Piano... Actually I believe VI's samples are ideal, but what I'm afraid of is the DSP.
  • E
    E
    I've just spent a week with the Vienna Imperial and I love it. However I have a slight concern. To my ears at least, some of the top notes (e.g. the C and Db three octaves above middle C), especially when played quietly, seem slightly out of tune. This is only audible when the sustain pedal is down and the resonance samples enabled. Although this adds to the organic quality of the piano (to refer to an earlier post) it does worry me, especially when this is to be used in recordings. Anyone else noticed this?
  • D
    D
    Yes I've noticed this too. I have the same concern.
  • G
    G

    Not sure why this would be a concern. Do you think when a concert pianist performs a piece on a perfectly tuned piano, it will stay like that though out the whole piece? After the first forte passage it already begins to detune.
  • K
    K
    The fact that the real piano is often out of tune does not justify that a virtual instrument is... One of the advantages of a digital piano is that it always stays tuned - here it seems to be slightely detuned from the very beginning, and to make matter worse, retuning is virtually impossible.
  • E
    E
    I quite agree. Retuning isn't virtually impossible: it's impossible. One fundamental difference between a piano and a digital piano is that the piano tuner can't be called in to fix any out-of-tune notes in the latter. There is the additional issue that the out-of-tune samples are always exactly the same, making the fault doubly irritating. It would seem that the piano tuner hadn't been called in often enough when the initial recordings were made. Vienna Imperial is expensive, undoubtedly reflecting the undeniably impressive technical achievement, but this issue really needs sorting out, perhaps by another recording session to recapture the duff samples. In a concert setting the current Vienna Imperial would be barely acceptable; for an instrument designed for recording it is simply unacceptable.
  • G
    G

    Never bothered me, and I recorded tons of pieces with Vienna Imperial. You may be focussing so much on it that it starts to seem much bigger then it really is.
  • K
    K
    Could anyone place a sample of music played on the "Dry Rock Piano" preset? Thanks in advance!
  • R
    R
    Hello, I just found this thread. Some days ago I started a similar thread. I also discovered that some of the top notes are slightly out of tune... Of course that's not perfect but one can live with it. A much more bothering problem what I've written already is that there's an oscillating high frequency tone at G4... very high and louder at heavier velocities (espeacially when using the sustain pedal!!!). Nobody noticed that? It's rather evident and annoying but the responsibles at VSL ignore my request... :-( I would wish they could process this note and launch an update of the Imperial...