Velocity x-fader does not match note-on velocity

[kbostroem]

The title might be a bit confusing. Let me try to explain.

When I switch on velocity x-fading (for violins, say) then the sound is generally much louder than with velocity x-fade switched off, even if the controller value matches the note-on velocity.

To make it even more explicit: Map the "vel xf" fader to "note on velocity". Now it should make no difference if the "velocity x-fade" button is switched on or off, right? But it does. What's this?

[kbostroem]

I think I found the culprit: I'm using the brand-new VST Expressionmap for Cubase 5, which I recently downloaded from the VSL site. It seems the map is somehow "messing up" controller values, but I haven't yet figured out how. I have created my own expressionmap which doesn't sound as good as the VSL one, but that does not show the strange behavior described in this topic.

OK, so it's allright with VSL, only the VSL expressionmap needs to be studied and understood more thoroughly...

[andi]

I can't recreate your problem. On my machine Velocity XF works regardless if you are using expression maps or not. The only MIDI controller you can't use for the Vel XF is CC1, because this one is used to switch articulations vertically (V-Span).

Best,
Andi

[kbostroem]

I noticed that already and inserted the Midi effect "Transformer" to transform Modulation wheel messages (CC1) into Breath controller messages (CC2) which I then mapped to the velocity x-fader. Maybe this is the core of the problem? Maybe the Transformer does not completely intercept and transform the CC1, and some is leaking into Vienna Ensemble? Or, CC2 is already occupied by some other function in the Matrix? I cannot test it here at work, will do it tonight.
Anyway, what is the best way to controll velocity xf if not using the Mod wheel? Which CC should I use and which hardware device to not conflict with predefined controller settings in the expression map and/or the matrix?

[andi]

As written before, you can use any Controller, but CC1. I personally tend to use CC11 (Expression) to control Velocity XF and disable the CC11 control for the EXP fader.

Best,

Andi

[kbostroem]

The phenomenon is there! I have unloaded both the VST Expressionmap and the Midi Transformer. I have mapped the Vel XF Fader to Note-on velocity, so that the velocity x-fade switch should make no difference. Then I play the same notes (the matrix is manually set to legato), once with velocity crossfading disabled,
http://www.kim-bostroem.de/Stuff/VelXFOn.mp3
and once with it being enabled,
http://www.kim-bostroem.de/Stuff/VelXFOff.mp3.

Sounds different, right?

[andi]

Of course there is a difference between Vel XF switched on and off. I never denied that. When switched on, the different velocity layers get crossfaded. So in the border areas of the velocity layers you will hear two velocity layers. This means further there is no hard cut between velocities, but a smooth transition.

Best,
Andi

[kbostroem]

This means that in the default setting (Vel-XF switched off, note-on velocity rules), there is no fading between the layers at all?

[andi]

Yes

[kbostroem]

OK, this makes a good explanation of the behavior.
Although I feel it would be somewhat more consistent if both note-on velocity and x-fader would determine the same smooth crossfading between the velocity layers. But well...

Andi, I thank you very much for your patience and your clear answers!

Best wishes,

Kim