@ct1961 said:
As for the Cimbasso - how many strings does it have?
Cimbasso is a brass instrument.
Thanks.
...you obviously don't know how many strings it has either.
Colin
Haha! I guess not![:)]
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@ct1961 said:
As for the Cimbasso - how many strings does it have?
Cimbasso is a brass instrument.
Thanks.
...you obviously don't know how many strings it has either.
Colin
Haha! I guess not![:)]
A standard orchestration is very reasonable to load for RAM. it would normally consist of:
Flute (s)
Oboe
Clarinet
Bassoon
Trumpet
Horn
Trombone
Tuba
Timpani
Percussion
Harp
Violins 1
Violins 2
Violas
Cellos
Basses
On the winds, you would have more than one part each depending on the size of the ensemble, but every orchestra that plays the standard concert repertoire has to have something like this. Beat is right about creating for a template the pan and level settings and basic articulations only , which might be Legato-sustain-detache-staccato and maybe tremolo in strings and trills in woodwinds.
That's great.
But i want to make sure i understand what you're saying. You say trumpet as in 1 trumpet? Same for trombone and horn? No ensemble? I was under the impression orchestras had trumpet ensembles, horn ensembles, and maybe trombone ensemble too. I guess I'm a little surprise. Or maybe that a very basic setup? I'm not doubting you i just need to clarify this.
This is going to be very helpful.
Thanks a lot.
No, I just meant that some number of trumpets would be used and it varies. But the normal numbers (which of course will often vary depending on the piece ) will be:
2 Flutes
2 Oboes
2 Clarinets
2 Bassoon
2 or 3 Trumpets
2 0r 4 Horns
2 Tenor Trombones (plus possibly Bass Trombone)
Tuba or not tuba (Hamlet said that didn't he?)
Timp/Perc
Harp
Violins 1
Violins 2
Violas
Cellos
Basses
You would see these numbers in for example a Brahms symphony. A little before that, in the Classical era there were usually just pairs of winds, with no clarinets, trombones or tuba until Beethoven started using clarinets and trombones. The tuba came in still later. So the normal orchestra seen today is the Romantic era orchestra, which will often have trios of winds, with the following:
Piccolo
2 Flutes
2 Clarinets
Bass Clarinet
2 Oboes
English Horn
2 Bassoons
Contrabassoon
and the larger brass section. The strings were expanded in numbers of players to balance the greater number of winds and percussion. It was Wagner, Richard Strauss and Mahler who really expanded the orchestra with more brass (such as the Wagner tubas which are almost never used today except for playing Wagner's operas) four each of the woodwinds sometimes and even bigger brass sections. People often lump Bruckner together with Mahler, but his orchestration was very different in that he used normal sized Brahms-style orchestra except for adding some Wagner tubas in the 7th and 9th symphonies.
William
What is the least expensive way to purchase the (second chairs) of the 2-2-2-2 WW and Brass groups to complete a basic orchestral set of instruments with minimum (level one) articulations for the amateur? I have SE and APP.
tony h
@TonyHartmann said:
What is the least expensive way to purchase the (second chairs) of the 2-2-2-2 WW and Brass groups to complete a basic orchestral set of instruments with minimum (level one) articulations for the amateur? I have SE and APP.
tony h
In your shoes I wouldn't spend money buying the second chairs of anything. There are far more important things to spend your money on. I have most of the orchestral Collections of VSL, and I can't remember the last time I used the second chair of anything. I suppose that it could be nice when you have a little contrapuntal duet with the 1st and 2nd bassoon, but even that's a stretch.
DG
DG,Thanks for the input.
How do you handle the second parts when splitting the original into two parts? For example, I have a clainet part 1 and clarinet part 2, each on their own track and am now ready to go from midi to audio. Do I record part 1 with my single clarinet, then change to track 2 and use the same instrument to record the second part? Live they would sound different. In the computer and recording world, they would blend into the orchestral mix unless exposed.
Beat Kaufmann suggests that the number of articulations of instruments is at the discretion of the computer composer and that meticulous articulations may be more important in solo,duet, etc. work (as you suggested above).
Do I understand what you have said to mean that the separation of the same instrument parts is a similar choice? That if the two clarinets are playing rhythm or harmony parts, the same voice for each is not that critical, but if the two clarinets are "exposed" different instruments may make a difference? (It is, after all, computer generated music that needs to be made to sound to the composer's, arranger's, orchestrator's desire, with whatever combinations work to achieve the result.
Thank you for the response. I appreciate it.
tony h
track 2
Hello Tony
About the 2nd chairs:
It is true that we get similar results with the samples of one instrument for the (a) second clarinet...
...specially in case of playing the same or a similar melody and using similar articulation.
There is a simple trick to get different sounds for the same tones:
Transpose the midi signal -1 half tone and compensate this half tone on the VI audio side +1half tone (with the pitch bend function).
Result: Same a' = an other sample (sound) even if you use the same articulation. ... = Second Chairs for free [H].
For a third instrument you can transpose the midi signal +1 half tone and reduce it on audio side (-1 haf tone)... = third chairs for free.
By the way: You can use this trick for playing unisono parts as well.
(See my midi tutorial Step 6 > 2 Bassoons!)
Now you have an argument more not to buy "second chairs" [:)]
Kind Regards
Beat
P.S. If you are using SE or LE samples you should transpoe +2 or -2 half tones because we only have "new" samples each 2 half tones.
Yes pitch-shifting is the best way to do it and why VSL did not sample 2nd versions of any of the instruments except for the ones that are variations in playing quality or instrument, like the second flute or lyric piccolo.
BTW you not only can do this pitch-shifting approach with divisi, but you really should if you want the sound to be accurate. In other words, simply using a solo clarinet for two clarinets when you only need one line, and then splitting it into two solo instruments when you need two, is a computerized cheat that you can probably get away with sometimes but is not (as you noted) like the real thing. Also, you might better use the ensemble clarinets, or other ensemble instruments if you are going from 3 part divisi to unisons with 3 players, and have them all on separate tracks so that the stereo image size is adjusted properly for the audible size of three players vs. a solo.
I have been a little obsessed with this divisi accuracy subject, as I have been doing some stuff with divis strings and orchestral horns, which very often go from unison to 2 notes to 4 notes. This absolutely requires extra steps like the pitch shifting, since there are no 2 player horn samples (and they are not really needed all that much).
In strings it is much more complicated, and doing a Debussy piece accurately could easily drive someone over the edge as the numbers of the Appassionata, Orchestral and Chamber ensembles do not necessarily match what you need in divisi. Though here, you can indeed cheat successfully as going from for example Appassionata strings unison to Orchestral 2 note divisi works very well. If you have 4 notes, you will certainly need the Chamber strings as the sound begins to be too thick. If you have even more (as in Debussy's Images) you would need to bring in a combination of Solo and Chamber parts. I had divisi in one piece I did (Apotheosis) that was 16 note in violas-violins and used only solos panned to approximate the stereo spread of the Appassionata unison violas-violins.