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Can't believe that's the case - lots of difference between 6 and 10 basses!
Anyway if that IS the case then why not just include the Orch basses with the Appass set so that we can have the full articulations, especially legato (which I find I use more than most other atrics with most instruments)?
Can anyone at VSL answer this?
Thanks guys
Steve
Could also be the assumption that basses aren't used "appasionata" style....
This issue has surfaced before, and I beleive the official answer was one of the two possibilities I just gave.
I disagree 100% that you "wouldn't use legato basses that much." Basses traditionally double the cellos 8vb, no? Would you say you dont need legato cello's? I could understand if you are thinking legato bass melodies as these dont happen very often, but legato doesn't mean "melody," it means smooth transitions between notes. I was planning on using legato basses for this smooth 16th note underline and SCREAMED when they were not available. Its bad enough they dont have any performance spiccato patches and I have to use chamber strings to create this basic sound, but the lack of legato is an outrage!! I really hope they fix this mistake in an update, but since VSL doesn't think they made a mistake, I'm not going to hold my breath.
Very disappointed in appassionata basses. They are half baked and need to go back in the oven!
That's just not true. Now, I will agree that most writing that takes place for film scores and game scores does not make heavy use of legato playing in the Bass section, but nonetheless it is a huge part of the bass players arsenal of playing techniques. Here are two very famous examples:
Neither of your examples are in the least bit "Appassionata". Nobody is saying that basses can't play legato. It's just that you wouldn't be able to tell whether they were or not most of the time. There are specific examples where it could be useful, but as soon as you put the cellos an octave above, then these differences are hardly audible, even if you listen for them.
DG
But would you use App Legato Basses instead of orch Legato Basses. I'm thinking yes... Having that larger sound being played legato would be nice at any rate, even if it isn't used all the time. I'm guessing most of us would use them more often than some of the more uncommon WW's.
Well there's two issues here Christian: One is the original intent of Appassionata which I believe was violins only. Then came all four string groups... then came more articulations per string group then they intended. So if VSL skipped somewhere, they skipped in the right place: the basses. Obviously legato missing in any of the upper strings would have been too much. The other issue is whether the entire Appas collection should have more articulations added. I think it would be a big seller to have a ton of Appass strings articulations.
Note: The Appass basses actually sound a lot like the old Miroslavs (which is a good thing.) I never missed having legato with those.
@dpcon said:
Well there's two issues here Christian: One is the original intent of Appassionata which I believe was violins only. Then came all four string groups... then came more articulations per string group then they intended. So if VSL skipped somewhere, they skipped in the right place: the basses. Obviously legato missing in any of the upper strings would have been too much. The other issue is whether the entire Appas collection should have more articulations added. I think it would be a big seller to have a ton of Appass strings articulations.
Note: The Appass basses actually sound a lot like the old Miroslavs (which is a good thing.) I never missed having legato with those.
I certainly agree about the "ton of articulations". Currently I use App as a kind of ambient mike sample, because there just aren't enough articulations for anything other than big tunes. I really miss a short staccato.
Having said that, many of the Ww and Brass instruments could do with shorter staccatos, so I think that VSL is just being lazy and should get off their collective butts and give us more. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...... [:'(]
DG
This is marketing !!!
if you have all the articulations in the Appassionata, you will not buy Chamber String I and II and Orchestral String I and II
Best
Cyril
True... But I think it's safe to assume that if App. Strings were as deeply samples as the Orch strings, that they would take pretty much all the sales (which may already be the case). I guess that App string collection sells better as a single collection than the orch strings 1+2.
@Christian Marcussen said:
True... But I think it's safe to assume that if App. Strings were as deeply samples as the Orch strings, that they would take pretty much all the sales (which may already be the case). I guess that App string collection sells better as a single collection than the orch strings 1+2.
Look at that price difference. That might account for any difference in sales figures. if there is any. [:D]
Indeed. But the quality of sound matters. The point is, that if they were sampled as deeply and priced the same way, I think I know how that would go [:)]
Re: legato basses. Yes of course they can play legato. But a lot of what people hear is actually cellos playing legato. Basses you really would not notice it much even if they played large phrases legato. Go and stand behind a bass section whenever you get the chance (i did recently) and watch and hear what mostly happens - you'll be surprised.
I am personally much more disappointed at the lack of performance repetition patches. The only Perf rep patches in the Basses are portamento. They dont even have staccato, yet alone spiccato or any "harsh" articulations. I personally would use these patches much more than legato, and am surprised they are not included, as one would think using the basses to "keep a pulse" would be standard writing, and make the need for multiple RR patches, at least more than the 2 alternations found in the normal patches, more apparent.
Of course none of these issues are deal breakers. We all will find ways around the limitations of the tools we use, so thats not the argument. The point is that these are limitations could, and perhaps should not have existed in the first place.
