Thanks for the info Dave.   I'm downloading the demo right now.   If this works it will be a real time saver!

Best,

Jay

 Looks like it works quite well.   I owe you a beer Dave (and some louder tubas!).

--Jay

 That's good news Jay.

 I think I'm going to try this on my own music - an old score printed in Music Printer Plus.

What about the Alpensinfonie, Jay?

[;)]

Congrats, sincerely.

Yes, I was wondering - what could someone do that could outdo this?  And of course the Alpensinfonie came to mind. However, since programming it would result complete homicidal madness, I don't advise anyone to take that step.   Purely on altruistic grounds.

Jay, don't even think about it.  You need rest now.  No more MIDI for you.  At least for a good long period of recuperation.  Or the men in white coats will soon be calling.  Trust me on this. 

 BTW, does anyone notice how nobody asks a lot about this, specifically, concerning anything?  And why is that?  I would wager it is because, to some extent, Jay is now the Yoda of MIDI.   They realize they must first attain the Mystic MIDI Apprentice Level, and only then, when sitting forlornly outside the Monastery of the Old MIDI Masters, can they be taken seriously as Disciples. 

I have in fact seen Jay outside the Monastery, when he made a brief appearance from within the Iridescent Fractal Gates, and he actually does have long pointy ears and a bald head.  And he is extremely short and handles a light saber fairly well. 

On top of that, he has personally told me,  when I pathetically complained about Sonar, or begged for some hint about the Nine Hermetic Secrets of the MIDI Way, to remember always -

Do or do not MIDI - there is no try. 

This is an amazing feat of arranging. Congratulations Jay. Nice to hear the lower horns for a change! But there is one sound that doesn't work well enough - muted trumpets!

Which reminds me, where are the muted horn samples for the Special Edition? Please can I have some?

Ross

 I  would love to download the mp3 for this, but all I get is this message The file http://vsl.co.at/downloader.asp?file=/Sounds/MP3/VI_DEMOS/Rite_of_Spring/Rite_of_Spring_Part1_complete_A_Kiss_of_the_Earth.mp3 cannot be found. Please check the location and try again.

Anyone else having this problem?

 welcome basso,

the downloader from the player is based on an older technology and according to the huge number of downloads it seems there was a memory problem and it did no longer respond.

the issue is fixed for the moment and i ask you to revisit - sorry for the inconvenience,

christian

Mmm... the soft part are very convincing indeed...

The poweful parts also sound quite realistic with the right articulations, but they tend to sound very MIDI quantised which is a shame.

But nevertheless,it's impressive

no other sample library comes this far...

Amazing Work Jay! i was wondering since sunday morning why nobody was posting anything about this! Truly incredible. Congrats Jay.

What about some Korngold next? Maybe the Sea Hawk Main Theme

I did not have that impression about the quantizing of loud parts.  I am usually very irritated by that problem and did not notice it at all here.  I think you may be reacting to the fact that the piece is played very accurately - not inhumanly accurately, but more accurately than usual with live players.  That is one thing I find interesting about this - to be able to hear  the rhythms so clearly.  I have heard numerous recordings and they all vary radically in sound and feel, due to the extreme difficulty of playing it.

Well, it sounds too perfect for a real orchestra... so that's not human...

but still, as this being a detail, any other sample library would make the entire project impossible to even think about.

@bartdelissen said:

Well, it sounds too perfect for a real orchestra... so that's not human... [...]

Good point!

I don't want to argue if this is the case or not with Jay's great version of the "Rite" - I just find the question [i]per se[/i] interesting if a musical perfomance  _has_ to be "human" (read: like we are used to hear it), or if it wouldn't  be a valid point-of-view to say "This is how it was (maybe?) meant to sound like". Having quite a background in electronic music, I have to say that "perfect" timing can have its charm in the proper context, so why couldn't this be true for so-called "orchestral" music, too ...?

... but this is a topic for a different thread. I don't want to hi-jack this one.

Then you would do electronic music with orchestra which is indeed another context.

Such Classical pieces are always much harder than composing original music with samples, since everyone refers to noteworthy performances...

So when I listen to any classical composer I refer to classical orchestra with the performances and interpretation and that's what I want to hear, no matter how interesting some editing and adding electronic aspects can be with VSL (I've also done it before ;-)

And once again, I once succeed with VSL...

I quickly want to say something here as well. There is a psychological effect when it does not sound to what we are a custom to hearing, we are often disoriented. I've encountered this a few times myself with reactions of passages of my own pieces, not rhymically but in other manners. The real question should be, does it sound musical? Period!

There's an interesting point about real orchestral performances and sampled ones. It's not that a live orchestra doesn't start all at the same time on the note they're meant to start on - it's more to do with the overall timing. The timing of a phrase or phrases becomes much more organic with a real orchestra - thus creating constant minimal fluctuations in sound. Completely impossible to do with samples.

The timing can be messed around with in a computer - but the infinitesimal sound variations from 14 violins cannot because these are always the same snapshots in time of the recorded sound. The sound always remains the same and never fluctuates.

Yes, what Dietz said is interesting.  An example of an electronic piece done by an orchestra is Blade Runner's soundtrack album.  It was NOT as good as the original analog synth by Vangelis.   In fact, it sounded totally insipid compared to the awesome power of the majestic synthesizers he used. 

The other aspect is what the composer imagined.  What did Stravinsky imagine, and what did he think when he heard it played by the orchestral players desperately trying to count right as the meter changed before their eyes every bar?  There are few orchestras that can play this piece at all, let alone really well.  And how close to Stravinsky's brain  is "really well"?  It is possible this is the first time the rhythms and notes have been heard exactly the way they were written.

One other thing about the timing, etc.  I agree on timing being more organic live, of course.  But part of that is a musical thing that can be done by a sufficiently good MIDI performer.   An example is not merely using a "humanize" or random computer function on a step sequenced line, but playing it in with your own timing mistakes which are - if you are good - musical mistakes such as being a little slow in the middle of a line, and then speeding everything up just a little to end up at the right point at the end.  This cannot be emulated easily by automatic humanizing alone and is very close to what happens in the orchestra.  Concerning the fact that each individual string player in an ensemble is playing slightly differently each note, that is true especially in a small slow chamber string ensemble performance... BUT often you will not hear that in a symphony orchestra performance.  Because of the massive number of instrumental sounds coming at you, your brain simply does not have the prcoessing power to note that kind of variation.  And so in the case of a large orchestral MIDI performance you can in fact create an almost perfect representation. 

I agree you will not hear the nuances of constant sound variations in a string section(s) when there is a full orchestral ensemble winding it's way up. You will, however, hear it only too clearly when the sampled strings are exposed - especially when it's legato style lines being played. This has always been the bane of sample libraries - the strings exposed, especially in the higher registers - and this is why good purveyors of sampled music do all they can to hide this fact through 'other' orchestration - which in itself leads to the subject of pieces of music being written to the strengths of the sample library and not the other way round.

Jay's magnificent effort dilutes quite a large part of this argument, but I could go on to say that on the other side of the coin, in other words when actually trying to write an original piece - it becomes far more difficult in my view, to utilize enormous amounts of available sampled articulations, than when doing it with something already written as in The Rite for example, whereby the articulations are more or less written in tablets of stone based on the A/B ing of one's favourite Rite recording.