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I have been in business for 9 years running a computer programming company catering to school boards. I get to make the upgrade policies and pricing. Don't make it sound like VSL had no choice. I certainly shared my emails with them and heard them take no responcibility for any situation that came up.
I would hope another company comes up with better samples and VSL no longer has this reign. I am not going to cry for VSL, they got my money!
cm: You eliminated my discount man and claimed I got a good deal because it was a final discount on the sale. Nothing ever said that on my license or on your training promo video. When I bought OPUS 1 and 2 this was never a concern for getting a discount on an upgrade. Then when I could afford to make my move you abbandoned your product line discount. So don't push on me that it is because I ran linux. I cleared my use of linux with your company before I purchased. I went into this investment with my eyes wide open. You changed the rules not me.
also in my opinion the discussion is in fact obsolete ... gigastudio went out of business, exs wouldn't be capable to run the full new libraries (even if apple would be willing to integrate some kind of new performance tool as plugin into exs), ect. ect - let's face it: the technology is outdated
upgrade paths: though i love mathematical and logical problems and the currently active literally thousands of upgrade discount combinations work rather nice it would have been a nightmare to integrate additional cases originating from the sample libraries, which actually would have contained upgrade cases within theimselves .... shiver ...
christian
That is if you consider Aplle and Microsoft the only platforms to work on.
I have been actively developing and tweeking my setup of Linuxsampler and Ardour3 on linux. I have The Performance Tool running in wine and can load my samples with ON-DEMAND-HOLD so I can effectively have samples load and unload realtime and give me the ability to not have to bounce my tracks.
With ARDOUR3 there is support for MIDNAM and I have converted my mappings over to it. ARDOUR3 allows the user to create program changes from one track with namings from the MIDNAM file so you can run your articulations from mostly one track instead of having to layer your tracks and only depend on The Performance Tool.
This is all being done with .gig files. So I would say the tech is far from dead. The only thing that is dead is Gigastudio and I have never used that anyways.
But I think VSL and I have had this conversation before.
chris, i didn't say it is dead, i mentioned it is outdated ... whereas the guy at linuxsampler.org obviously did a great job during the past years and the performance tool might run nicely in wine there was a strong - if not actually anavoidable - demand for a new tool.
the result was the vienna instruments (engine) providing 12 x 12 x 12 x 2 x [number of velocity layers] = thousands of layers plus much more advanced rule-sets than the performance tool would be capable to cover, not even talking about preloading and streaming now or working with sets of 20 and more GB loaded samples ...
not too many users would be able and willing to create and maintain a linux audio workstation for those or even less demands, but who knows ... if some *off the shelve* linux distribution will become available and syncrosoft provides an LCC for it (and the whole thing including audio drivers becomes supportable) maybe we will see a linux compile for VI/VE one day ....
christian
btw: i never tried, say using ubuntu, but i'd assume the performance tool would not work on a 64bit linux beyond 4 GB loaded data ...
:)
In linuxland we have the joy of running 64 bit systems and 32 bit apps. I am running 32bit wine with The Performance Tool on my 64 bit system with 8GB of RAM.
My system is a custom compiled Gentoo 64 bit, AMD Phenom Quad 8GB RAM. I have been building and tweeking it for 4 years now. You are right linux is not ready from the masses yet, but it will be and I offered to help VSL get there.
I will continue to push the old VSL on linux and hope you guys come over some day. I will keep you up on my progress. We are weeks away from our final studio setup and I can finally show you what we have built
Hey possibly we could be nice to each other again :)
cm,
QT just went LGPL so write your code in it and now you are cross p[latform. Or run in wine. Those guys who make your USB security thingy should get off their buts and make the switch over.
I sure like the look of your new tools but for me to purchase them only to find out I now have to debug them like I did The Performance Tool to run in Linux seemed a bit of a large price for me to afford.
Send me some dev versions of your stuff and I will get it running.
QT just went LGPL
i noticed,but i had in mind they distribute *some version(s) of QT* using the LGPL ... anyway, our development team is using QT since a long time now because otherwise it would have been almost impossible to have windows and OS X builds from the same source ...
thanks for your offer, but for obvious reasons a *dev-version* (i.e. the source) cannot leave the house 😉
christian
http://www.safenet-inc.com/support/tech/sentinel.asp
I am just working on a system for someone and they have some architechural software that uses SafeNet Sentinel.
Could that replace your Syncrosoft limitations?
Or possibly use SafeNet for linux and Syncrosoft for Mac and Windows?
Thanks!
Ha,
I've just re-read this old thread, having been in the same boat as many on here, but not really wanting to contribute as many others were doing it far more eloquently.
The reason I'm writing now is that I was looking at the Holiday discount page. I'm a GS3 user, and have been for ages now, and was one of those users who fell off the VIP upgrade path since I didn't have the ready cash available within the 12 month upgrade period. I now have 4K studio upgrade budget ready to rock and roll, and just thought I'd share my thought process with the community, and VSL.
I nearly did it. I nearly stretched the 5K and bought the VE symphonic cube. I own the VE special edition, and also the VE saxes. I love them, and they're great, and I'd happily recommend them to anyone. What stopped me? I love the product, it's amazing, and the interface is ridiculously easy to use. VSL without a doubt make the best products on the market.
Answer? Trust.
I didn't realise it at the time, but I felt as fed up as all those guys above me. I realise I now think of Vienna now as 'not entirely to be trusted'. I was really begrudging spending the money - I shelled out what was a massive amount for me when I was a student, but I felt like the VIP plan was 'insurance'. I spent the cash on the special edition, and will probably buy some additional instruments bit by bit, but I'll do so cautiously, and without any sense that the investment is guaranteed for any significant period of time.
I just thought I should share that, as all the dust has settled on this - I want to be clear that I'm not asking for anything, or asking for any specific response. It's just that a couple of colleagues were also asking me about purchasing VSL, and my honest advice was to 'be careful'.
Happy new year all. All the best for your composing projects in 2010 and the next decade!
Hi,
i second all your thoughts. Strangely enough, I went trough a re-install of GS3 during the holidays and I felt the same, like the re-install makes you go through all these issues again. The horizon libraries of mine where a gift and money was inolved, that was not easily spent.
When I looked at the new christmas special, it was like everything VSL in the past: If you spent a gazillion dollar , you can save thousands. Even if it meant that you have everything again, but only VE.
It would have been so easy, to give all Horizon and Cube users a gracious discount for their loyality and trust, like you said. Twenty years ago, for any company, that would have been a "no brainer"
But this is the millenium and the decade for greed and unconditonal exploit, if you are a cash driven company. What is customers loyality, what is the value of a community against dollars for stakeholders?
Firstly I'm not commenting on the morals of the various current and past upgrade paths.
However we must applaud VSL's democratic attitude - they run these open forums and extremely rarely is there any censorship.
Many respected organisations (like the BBC and Apple) remove comments at the drop of a hat when criticism of products or corporate decisions/policy is posted. In addition VSL has one of the best support records with frequent contributions from staff (at all times of day/night) to help out users of their products and even, in some cases, other suppliers hardware/software!
So there have been grumbles and also praise (lots) for VSL so in my book they are one of the good guys and long should they remain!
Happy New Year to all
Julian
Hi Herb
Please reconsider the question, that will be your good action for 2010 ;)
Best
Cyril
holgmeister, from your post in the giga forum i've been under the impression you rather wanted to change to kontakt, but maybe just a misinterpretation from my side and i should re-consider handing out new years gifts without beeing asked for ...
i can understand it doesn't always make sense to upgrade from horizon epic horns, french oboe and glass&stones to the respective full VI collections Woodwinds I, Brass II and Elments spending EUR 1.995.- just to receive a discount of EUR 430.- and many instruments you possibly don't even want or need - but upgrading the concert guitar (or overdrive) would have been a no-brainer IMO.
not only the step from 16 to 24 bit but the new interface extending the performance tool into 7 most easy accessible dimensions through the new mapping fur EUR 90.- would have payed off within a few hours of arranging.
because of the unexpected cesssation for giga users this offer has been even extended (as well as all other former upgrade paths) until 2008 oct. 15th - a series of newsletters has been sent out to the subscribers.
if that is of any interest: for the new upgrade paths more discounts have been given already than all theroretically possible old discounts had summed up to ... so you can see that dollars for stakeholders *) - which include the community btw - indeed do count
hope that sheds some light into corners which appear to be in the shadow, christian
*) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakeholder_(corporate) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakeholder
Many respected organisations (like the BBC and Apple) remove comments at the drop of a hat when criticism of products or corporate decisions/policy is posted. In addition VSL has one of the best support records with frequent contributions from staff (at all times of day/night) to help out users of their products and even, in some cases, other suppliers hardware/software!
So there have been grumbles and also praise (lots) for VSL so in my book they are one of the good guys and long should they remain!
Thanks for this interesting reply Julian, and a happy new year to you also. Actually I think the Apple comparison is very apt. They make 'premium' products, with a premium (and how!) price tag, and yet have some of the most esoteric operating methods I've ever encountered. I can't disagree their support is second to none (both apple and vsl). It's just that time-sensitive upgrade offers, 'individual contact with customers via our sales team' and the now infamous locking users out of an upgrade path are pretty 3-star policies, and don't reflect well on what is a 5-star product.
As to the comment about the BBC, I suppose your objection is to an overly dominant player in the marketplace behaving in a way you deem innapropriate at times. I guess my post above demonstrates that this kind of behaviour isn't limited to purely public sector organisations, and at least with the BBC you can write to ofcom if you have a problem. No such joy with sample library manufacturers.
I'd be more than happy for other more informed users to point me in the direction of a strategy here, some users of this forum seem to be incredibly well informed as to the various upgrade paths, so if I can piggy back on all your hard work it would be much appreciated. At the moment I have GS3, with no way of getting hold of the discontinued GS4. Therefore, I have to keep one machine running GS3, with no product support and no way of re-authorising if anything goes amiss. There's no way I'm spending 4k on stuff I've already got, and can use, so my current strategy is 'live with it and pray it doesn't go wrong'. If I'm labouring under a misapprehension and I've got more options than this, then I'd be delighted to receive advice/guidance from the community.
Oh, btw, I'm not intentionall posting anonymously, I was sure I had a proper user account, it's just been a while since I posted in the forum.
Thanks for the replies again,
Mike
@julian said:
Many respected organisations (like the BBC)
Happy New Year to all
Julian
Happy New Year Julian. The BBC should be disbanded and broken up.
No! quite simply the BBC is the world's best broadcast company/organisation by a country mile. There isn't a single other broadcaster that even plays on the same pitch when you consider the quality and breadth of their programme (and equipment) origination and archive not to mention the incredibly comprehensive website and support of the arts - The annual promenade concerts - just one example.
The "censorship" I was referring to, by the way, originates in their dealing with a public debate concerning their current policy of reducing bit rates for their HD TV service. They also have restricted rates for their flagship classical music service (Radio 3) under the DAB system.
These low data rates have relevance (not to this particular thread) to VSL users who strive for quality yet see their work stripped away in compression algorithms only 1% of the original video data survives and about 5% of the audio!
If you do a comparison between Radio 3 FM (15Khz analogue bandwidth though there are digital sections in the chain) and Radio 3 DAB or, equally, look at a good 625 line Analogue TV transmission compared with a 12 Mbits/sec Satellite "HD" transmission then it can be seen that the delivery formats have advanced very little indeed - against the origination formats which have.
Some time in the future people will look back in amusement at the quality people were prepared to put up with when downloading iTunes music and watching TV on Satellite..... Rant over ! [:)]
Julian
