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  • V
    V
    Hi,
    I'm trying to understand how to make this work (I'm new to Pro Tools and Vienna Ensemble).

    I have several midi tracks and one auxiliary tracks, on which I run the VE as a plug-in. I configure the outputs of my midi tracks to match the channels of the Vienna Ensemble. When I playback, I get feedback. I'm know I'm not doing things correctly, but I have a hard time fallowing what you describe (method 1).

    Could you provide just a few more details on where and how I must run VE and what I should do in Pro Tools?

    Thanks a lot,
    Vincent
  • D
    D

    Vincent,

    It sounds to me like you are mixing Method 1 and Method 2 as I described.

    In Method 1, you should not use VE as a plugin. Set up the Aux Track to accept audio only. 

    Run the Vienna Ensemble (not the VE Server), and make sure that the audio output goes to a sound card which is then plugged into your Pro Tools input.

    As far as feedback, I am guessing that you have Pro Tools and Ensemble running on the same machine, and are using MIDI-over-LAN (MOL) to  move the MIDI signals, in "pipe" mode.  This is fine, but it is very easy to accidently set this up to get feedback.  If this is the case:

    • in the menu of Pro Tools, go into the MIDI setup functions, especially MIDI Input Filters (the names might not be exactly right, since I am not in front of my Pro Tools Machine right now)
    • make sure that all of the MIDI-over-LAN "pipe" inputs are turned off. (unchecked).  In fact, I suggest that you turn off all off the MIDI inputs except those where you are really sending MIDI signals into Pro Tools (for example, from a keyboard).

    I this does not work, please send more information on your setup.  For example:

    • Ensemble and Pro Tools on the same machine?
    • MIDI configuration (hardware?  MOL?)
    • Sound card configuration
    • Complete setup of the Aux Track in question (inputs, outputs, filters, sends, etc.)

    Good luck,

    --Dirk
  • V
    V
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    @dirk said:

    Vincent,

    It sounds to me like you are mixing Method 1 and Method 2 as I described.

    In Method 1, you should not use VE as a plugin. Set up the Aux Track to accept audio only. 

    Run the Vienna Ensemble (not the VE Server), and make sure that the audio output goes to a sound card which is then plugged into your Pro Tools input.

    As far as feedback, I am guessing that you have Pro Tools and Ensemble running on the same machine, and are using MIDI-over-LAN (MOL) to  move the MIDI signals, in "pipe" mode.  This is fine, but it is very easy to accidently set this up to get feedback.  If this is the case:

    • in the menu of Pro Tools, go into the MIDI setup functions, especially MIDI Input Filters (the names might not be exactly right, since I am not in front of my Pro Tools Machine right now)
    • make sure that all of the MIDI-over-LAN "pipe" inputs are turned off. (unchecked).  In fact, I suggest that you turn off all off the MIDI inputs except those where you are really sending MIDI signals into Pro Tools (for example, from a keyboard).

    I this does not work, please send more information on your setup.  For example:

    • Ensemble and Pro Tools on the same machine?
    • MIDI configuration (hardware?  MOL?)
    • Sound card configuration
    • Complete setup of the Aux Track in question (inputs, outputs, filters, sends, etc.)

    Good luck,

    --Dirk

    Thanks for your response.

    The only problem is that when I run VE outside Pro Tools (as you suggest), I cannot assign the midi outputs to it. It's like Pro Tools doesn't aknowledge VE unless I open it within Pro Tools.

    Yes, PT and VE are on the same machine (I have only the VS SE library). I'm not sure what is that MOL configuration you descbrive. I just run things they way they are set by default on my PC, haven't touched any options regarding that. I'll try to look in the Midi Outputs filter dialog box and see if it works out.
  • D
    D

    Vincent,

    Well I see where your problem is.  Here are some possibilities for you - but they all probably involve some money....

    A) MIDI option:

    You need to have a set of MIDI ports for PT to send to and for VE to receive from.  Your sound card may have enough ports. Otherwise you will need to either:

    • buy a hardware MIDI kit; lug one of the MIDI outs into one of the MIDI ins with a cable.
    • buy MIDI over LAN from musiclab (about 150 Euros) - a software solution (and my preference); configure it with at least one MIDI "pipe"

    Once you have MIDI in- and out- from your machine, follow Method 1 in my April 16 post.  Make sure you start Vienna Ensemble (not the Vienna Ensemble Service). Pro Tools will not "see" Vienna directly , but you should be able to send to the appropriate MIDI port out, and have Vienna "see" the signal on a MIDI port in.

    Remember to filter out MIDI inputs - per my earlier post - or you will get feedback.

    The Vienna Ensemble configuration will stay the same regardless of whatever session you bring up on Pro Tools.

    B) Vienna Ensemble Service option:

    You will need to buy "VST to RTAS 2.1" from FXpansion (about 86 Euros).  Run this, and it will convert the Vienna Ensemble Client to RTAS, and you can then load that as a plugin into PT (Instrument track).

    Follow the instructions for Method 2 in my April 16 post. You will not need to get a gigabit ethernet hub, since everything will be in the same computer (using "loopback").

    The Vienna Ensemble configuration will be saved with PT and will change for each new session you bring up on Pro Tools.

    If you use this option, watch out for using multiple Instrument tracks with multiple Vienna clients.  It works fine, but the Ensemble instances might not clear properly when you close a session.

    --Dirk
  • V
    V
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    @dirk said:

    [...]

    B) Vienna Ensemble Service option:

    You will need to buy "VST to RTAS 2.1" from FXpansion (about 86 Euros).  Run this, and it will convert the Vienna Ensemble Client to RTAS, and you can then load that as a plugin into PT (Instrument track).

    Follow the instructions for Method 2 in my April 16 post. You will not need to get a gigabit ethernet hub, since everything will be in the same computer (using "loopback").

    The Vienna Ensemble configuration will be saved with PT and will change for each new session you bring up on Pro Tools.

    If you use this option, watch out for using multiple Instrument tracks with multiple Vienna clients.  It works fine, but the Ensemble instances might not clear properly when you close a session.

    --Dirk

    Hi Dirk, That's actually the way I was set already. I bought the FXpansion software and use the Vienna as a PT plug-in. And this is also what got me feedback. Now the weird thing is that it does so with Vienna Ensemble, but not with Vienna Instruments, or even with the Aria player from Finale (which works closest to Vienna Ensemble, in the sense that it is a multichannel plug-in). Why would Ensemble generate feedback and not the others?
  • D
    D

    Ok Vincent, sorry - it sounds like things are basically set up ok.  I will try to help.

    I suggest that you list out and send to the forum the all of the steps you go through to set up for a session. For example, something like this:

    - Start Vienna Ensemble Service

    - Start Pro Tools

    - Create a Session

    - Create an Instrument Track

    - Add an Insert Plugin to the Instrument Track of "Vienna Ensemble"

    - Select "Connect" in the plugin (does it connect properly and an Ensemble instance pop up?)

    - Set the Instrument Channel output to "Analog 1-2"

    - Set the Instrument Channel input to "no input"

    - Create a MIDI channel

    - Set the MIDI channel output to "Vienna Ensemble 1: Channel1"

    - In the Ensemble instance: insert an instrument, and set it to channel 1

    Also go to Pro Tools menu Setup -> MIDI -> Input Devices and list the contents.  Are any of them checked?  (If anything is checked, uncheck it - even if you think you need it.  It will be a valid test.)

    Are there any other MIDI dievices or sound card hardware (other than the Pro Tools hardware) on the machine?

    When you say feedback, I assume that you mean once you play a note, it keeps on playing many times?  (That is, it sounds like a MIDI problem, not an audio problem - right?)

    That's all I can think of to ask.  If you list all of this, I will try to see if there is a problem.

    --Dirk
  • V
    V
    Hey dirk,

    First, when I said feedback, it's maybe not the best word to describe what I hear. It's actually more distortion then feedback, like if the volume was peeking over its max. But it's clearly not the case when I look at any volume gauge, either in VE or on the auxiliary/instrument track in PT. Anyway even if I lower all the volumes, I still hear distortion.

    Ok, here are the steps I fallow when I lauch a new session.
    1. Launch Pro Tools
    2. Start new session
    3. Create midi tracks
    4. Create a stereo auxiliary or instrument track (one or the other produces the same result)
    5. Insert VE as a multichannel plug-in on the aux/instrument track.
    6. Vienna server launches inside PT as a RTAS and the VE window opens itself
    7. I assign the midi tracks to different channel in VE and load the instruments accordingly in VE
    I haven't taken a look yet at the Midi filters, but I will as soon as I can and report you what options were checked.
  • V
    V
    Hi again,

    I tried again today and for some mysterious reasons, it worked just fine, wheter or not I check anything in the Input device menu. I think the problem came from the fact that I tried to use two instruments plug-ins on the same Aux or Instrument track (which is kind of dumm, come to think of it!).

    Anyway, it's all working fine now. Thanks a lot for your help.
    Vincent
  • D
    D

    Vincent,

    Glad you are up and running!

    Yes, it is not a good idea to use more than one instrument plug-in per track.  Also, while many of the instrument plug-ins work on Aux tracks, I have found that Instrument tracks do a better job of "cleaning up" when you switch to a new session.

    --Dirk
  • V
    V
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    @dirk said:

    Vincent,

    Glad you are up and running!

    Yes, it is not a good idea to use more than one instrument plug-in per track.  Also, while many of the instrument plug-ins work on Aux tracks, I have found that Instrument tracks do a better job of "cleaning up" when you switch to a new session.

    --Dirk

    Interesting... indeed when I want to close sessions involving many instruments, PT regularly crashes. I should try with Instrument tracks and see if it makes a difference.

    Thanks again!

    Vincent

  • K
    K
    OK so reading thru these posts, & I am new to Vienna buy a couple days, I see that you don't necessarily have to be hooked to a network to use VE, but when I insert it I keep getting just the window that says "Not Connected"... Again, I'm not trying to do the network thing; I want to be able to use it in Pro Tools; I can pull it up as a standalone with no problem @ all but as a plug in pro tools, it just says "STATUS" not connected? I'm normally pretty fast @ figuring things out but this 1 has me by the nads...
  • D
    D

    KEYBEETSSS,

    Happy to try to help, but there are too many "it's" in your post.  Please give us a better clue as to what is happening.  For example:

    - you are running Pro Tools on Windows?

    - you are trying to use Vienna Ensemble 3.0?

    - you have used FXpansion's VST to RTAS tool on the Vienna Client?  And it is this client that you are trying to use as a plugin in PT?

    - do you already have the Vienna Ensemble Server (3.0) running?  I assume from your post that this is on the same machine as PT?

    - when you bring up the Vienna Client window as a PT plugin, and then press "connect" do you get a window with the IP address of your machine?

    Send us this info, and anything else that might be relevant, and we will try to help.

    --Dirk