Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

191,203 users have contributed to 42,788 threads and 257,323 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 2 new thread(s), 3 new post(s) and 43 new user(s).

  1. Home
  2. Sample Libraries
  3. Vienna Instruments Libraries
  4. Strange attack behaviour of HO-4

  • Strange attack behaviour of HO-4

    F
    F
    I somehow donĀ“t get my HO-4_stacc play the same sound 4 times in a row. IĀ“m not sure, if this is wanted (since there seem to be other patches switching between to staccato-sounds) but in case of the HO-4_stacc, there seems to be something wrong, because if I play four identical notes in a row, the 3rd and 4th have a totally different attack, which cannot be wanted. Listen yourself: .http://www.hohes-b.de/_strange%20stacc.%20Horns.mp3 . Any ideas, how to solve this?
  • F
    F
    Just came in my mind: It canĀ“t be wanted like other staccato patches, because the row would be: stacc1, stacc2, stacc1, stacc2. In my case it is: stacc1, stacc1, stacc2, stacc2. Plus stacc2 having a very different sound, not like in other patches.
  • C
    C

    Hi Felix, I can hear the problem - it's caused by the player rotating through four alternations. (The number of alternations in each patch are listed in the product manuals, by the way.) Alternating the samples is designed to avoid the 'machine gun effect', but occasionally (as in this case) it substitutes one undesirable effect with another.

    We had a discussion about this recently at http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/19643/137138.aspx#137138. In that thread I made this suggestion to VSL:

    * * * * * * * *

    How about a MIDI-controlled global on/off switch for ALL round robins and repetitions?

    When it's ON (which would be the default setting), patches ALWAYS cycle through their alternate samples, and if you alternate between patch A and patch B, both will continue to advance through their samples regardless of what's going on elsewhere.

    When it's OFF you hear only the first sample (like in the old days). That would enable users to quickly reset to the first sample, or even use the 'machine gun effect' on the odd occasion when it's artistically desirable. (I find it is from time to time, but that's not an issue we need to debate here.)

    With this system the only thing you couldn't do is immediately access (say) the fourth repetition as a starting point in a cycle, but even that could be done with a little user programming trickery. As a footnote, personally I want more control over the samples I use, randomness doesn't attract me at all.

    * * * * * * * *
  • F
    F
    I was affraid of that. In the case of all other instruments I like this variation. But the HO-4_stacc are really bad programmed. Specially when you play these staccato notes together with other brass instruments, it sounds like the horns are out of mesure on every third note. Are there any plans of fixing that or any workarounds?
  • C
    C

    Would VSL like to comment on my suggestion? Seems to me it would give us the best of both worlds. 
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

     Hello Felix, hello Conquer,

    regarding the samples we have recorded with the 4 horn section: staccatos are not the easiest articulation to play with horns, and the samples you hear are the best out of many recorded staccatos. 

    There is also a workaround to avoid the 3rd and 4th repetition. If you quickly trigger a muted 3rd and 4th note, you can stick with repeating the 1st and 2nd alternation. 

    Regarding a global On/Off Button for repetitions: We have read all the statements regarding control and randomness of repetitions. We do understand your concern. In our eyes, we have made things easier to understand and also easier to control. 

    As you know there are workarounds for this behaviour - especially for someone who has licenses all the Pro Edition and Horizon Series with the "old" performance repetition system, like you, Conquer [;)], but also fr everybody who insists on picking just the repetition notes he needs/wants to hear. Right now, this means to take some effort. We are looking into it, but I have to admit that this is not the #1 topic on our to-do list. 

    Thanks for understanding!

    Best, 

    Paul


    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • F
    F
    Hey Paul, thanks! That will help, if you explain to me how to "trigger a muted note". Do you mean, that I should place two notes after the first two ones and mute them? Are they recognized as notes by VE?
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

     Hello Felix, 

    thatĀ“s what I meant, exactly. You could mute them by simply lowering expression or volume, or have "ghost notes" on a separate track...

    A MIDI event is always recognized, be it muted or unmuted.

    Best,

    Paul 

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • C
    C
    last edited
    last edited

    Thanks Paul, it's good to know you've given this some consideration. I guess it was bound to invite comment because having got used to the Performance Tool's facilities, some users would obviously hope to see them fully implemented in the VI. 

    @Paul said:

    In our eyes, we have made things easier to understand and also easier to control. 
    I agree, integrating the Performance Tool functions into the VI certainly made it easier to understand and operate, particularly for first-time users. The attendant slight reduction of control over alternations and repetitions is something I hope you can address in future, but I understand how busy you guys are!