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  • I hadn't seen Werner Hertzog on a sort of documentary since about 1982. The BBC made one in conjunction with his then, new film, Fitzcaraldo.

    The other evening, 26 years later, Werner Hertzog appears again. A very true film maker and an artist I believe. And a great sense of humour - very funny guy, especially when being anecdotal about film making and Klaus Kinski - bearing in mind German humour is fairly deadpan and an acquired taste :)))

    Werner believes that anyone who wants to make films should go out and get a camera and there's no excuses.

    RK - NEVER buy a white car.

  • Paul I've tried the other colors. They Got me arrested among other incidents that we will keep quiet about. ! clearly its not the Color. Thats why I mentioned white. Its the Music. People find it hard to accept. We still live in this tribal society of big over small. The little guy syndrome. Thats me. On the other side of the Coin. Have had the pope John Paul stick up for me. President Nixon used to say I look thiner than piss on Rock. ( During my rock days in the 70's ) Elton john, Rod Stewart, Franky Valley, Kenny Rogers among a few who have written songs about me. It goes on and on. But non of these make a hill of beans if you're the little guy ! Everyone Knows why we have twelve keys on the piano as well as 12 hours on a watch. But no one wants to volunteer and explain ! ...... I'm gonna have fun at work today. If anyone is interested. I cut grass for Exercise. It makes you play piano very well. You kids should try it. If an old man can do it, So can you ! Feeeeels Great.

  • "the use of Sampling is of a luxury that one didn't have before. And I also still maintain that Composition is king. The process is a lengthy one. And there are no ways around it."  - rk

    This is true, and especially the point about who is going to talk about little flaws in realism if you create something as good as Beethoven.  And that is what has become possible - in sound as well as written form - with samples.  I often think about how an oil painter can go into his studio, sit down and paint the greatest painting in the history of world art - that is, if he is artistically good enough.  But technically, he has everything he needs to do it with the tools right in front of him.  That is the basic thing which is happening with a sufficiently powerful digital orchestra. BTW, RK (Robert Kaye) has a CD with a very impressive string quintet out, using the VSL solo string samples and piano.

    I saw a Herzog documentary - is this the one? - in which he discussed Klauss Kinski's early career, during which Kinski traveled across Germany doing a live stage show that was designed to enrage the audience and cause fights.  I admire that tremendously. Also, his later acting which is definitive of the word "maniacal."  He was in a film set in South America, Cobra Verde, playing a maniac as usual, in which real Indians were cast as the recruits of his army, and who in reality wanted to kill him during shooting because of his charming practice of using a real sword during the fight scenes.  As an actor he was like what I was thinking this morning about Schubert as opposed to Schumann:  Schumann was an artist, but Schubert was a force of nature.


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    @vibrato said:

    .... and I work in India. We dont really have orchestras to work with.

    http://www.resolutionmag.com/pdfs/FACILI~1/RAMOJI.PDF

    http://www.resolutionmag.com/pdfs/FACILI~1/yashraj.pdf

    .


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    @William said:

    I saw a Herzog documentary - is this the one? - in which he discussed Klauss Kinski's early career, during which Kinski traveled across Germany doing a live stage show that was designed to enrage the audience and cause fights.  I admire that tremendously. Also, his later acting which is definitive of the word "maniacal."  He was in a film set in South America, Cobra Verde, playing a maniac as usual, in which real Indians were cast as the recruits of his army, and who in reality wanted to kill him during shooting because of his charming practice of using a real sword during the fight scenes.  As an actor he was like what I was thinking this morning about Schubert as opposed to Schumann:  Schumann was an artist, but Schubert was a force of nature.



    That was part of it Bill.

    It involved a story about how Werner supposedly directed Kinski from behind the camera whilst holding a gun on him, although this may have been exaggerated - but he did threaten to shoot him I believe if he walked off the set on one occasion and Kinski started shouting and going crazy.

    That's what I call being a Director.

  • That's interesting to hear about the situation of music recording there, Tanuj. 

    "actually, if the fate of the world's orchestras continues along its bleak path, there may very well be generations of composers to come who *only* understand "orchestral sounds" as samples." - jbm

    That is true, except maybe for the effect of film music.  In that many people today have never once consciously listened to a live orchestra, but they cannot help being exposed to film music in at least big productions, which still relies upon the sounds - even the traditional "classical" playing styles - of the orchestra  (because of the basically Post Romantic-Early Modern styles that film music tends to lapse into).  So the actual acoustic basis of live musical practices continues to exert an influence even in the least consciously aware listener.

    I also think about the future of orchestral music, though I tend to think the people who are running around these days writing books about the "death of classical music" are exaggerating.  It has never been a big money machine for its practitioners, except for a few soloists, conductors and opera companies.  But the "purity" of VSL sampling philosophy is an interesting development in this regard, because what they are doing by insisting on authentically capturing EXACTLY what live players do - with as little distortion as possible - focuses the attention in two directions: their own work in samples, AND  the original live techniques of instrumental performance.


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    @Another User said:

    Angelo - I am afraid that your internet Googling is not the reality of things here. 

    If I ever decide to restart formal music education, and go on to do a PhD in Music, I am definitely going to take the following approach, based on many previous threads here:

    1) Work out what the title of my thesis is

    2) Post the exact opposite of that title as an opinion on this forum

    3) Wait for Angelo to post a bunch of references explaining why I am wrong, and a bit of a moron

    4) That's my bibliography

    Should cut a year off the PhD.


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    @nicks@aubergine.co.uk said:

    If I ever decide to restart formal music education, and go on to do a PhD in Music, I am definitely going to take the following approach, based on many previous threads here:

     

    1) Work out what the title of my thesis is

    2) Post the exact opposite of that title as an opinion on this forum

    3) Wait for Angelo to post a bunch of references explaining why I am wrong, and a bit of a moron

    4) That's my bibliography

     

    Should cut a year off the PhD.



    And...

    5) Make sure you carry a gun in case you run into Angelo - so you can either
    6) Shoot him or
    7) Shoot yourself

  • That's what happens to professors. After years of being forced to teach Music through darwin's Galapagos or Giligans Islands. Ben Stein made a Movie Called Expelled. Recently depicting the side effect. How Ironic. Or Angelic !

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    String quartet+ CB was not able to be perform this very simple piece:

    http://www.synestesia.fi/2007/11/rain.mp3

    generated from this picture in 5 seconds.:

    http://www.synestesia.fi/2007/11/sade.jpg

    It is also interesting, that professional composers demand that music generated from pictures and performed by software instruments should emulate the breath lengts of genuine fluitists, oboists, etc.


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    @lgrohn said:

    String quartet+ CB was not able to be perform this very simple piece:

     http://www.synestesia.fi/2007/11/rain.mp3 

    generated from this picture in 5 seconds.:

     http://www.synestesia.fi/2007/11/sade.jpg 

    It is also interesting, that professional composers demand that music generated from pictures and performed by software instruments should emulate the breath lengts of genuine fluitists, oboists, etc.

    For some reason I like that rain piece.  I have wondered about this system of yours - can it do tonal music and what does that sound like?  Also, where does the composer's creativity come in? I assume it is in adjusting the parameters of the automatic generation. Or is that too small an amount of input to actually qualify as "creativity" ?


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    @William said:

    For some reason I like that rain piece.  I have wondered about this system of yours - can it do tonal music and what does that sound like?  Also, where does the composer's creativity come in? I assume it is in adjusting the parameters of the automatic generation. Or is that too small an amount of input to actually qualify as "creativity" ?

     

    I guess this "background music" for an art exhibition last December in Gallery is a good example:

    http://www.synestesia.fi/music.html

    The notes were generated from the paintings shown (in 5 seconds).  I then tried to find the feeling of every single painting by selecting proper instruments. Of course different instruments have different pitch ranges but I didn't care. If some notes were not "played", no problem.

    I quess that is an example of composer creativity. Listening what comes out is still important and here new software instruments make this all possible.

    If you mean by tonal music only scales, any artificial set of pitch classed can be set as a parameter. One set is "Scelsi" consisting of only one pitch class. Going further, the systems doesn't use standard harmony rules, standard voice leading etc. And it doesn't try to make the music "playable" by living musicians.

    I hope this helped a little.


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    @vibrato said:

    Is this a form of Algorythmic music? Have you written a code - which then depending on the inserted image file - generates a coressponding MIDI file. Is this output different each time? Even when the same image file is inserted? Or the output is the same for each image file - unique.

    What is the purpose of this software? Are you using something like Max/Msp/Jitter to do this?

    How is an image file interpreted by this software? What control do you have on this interpretation? 

    Is it like Meta Synth etc?

    And finally - how is this different from just using a small application to come up with Random MIDI notes? How and by what amount does an image file influence the MIDI notes?

    If it is only generating MIDI notes - how then does it relate to the image - given that the notes could be given any colour by choosing different instruments?

     

    This is algoritmic music.

    I have written the code. It is a Java applet about 800 lines of code + the pitch range tables.

    The output is always the same if parameters (or picture) are not changed. No randomness is involved.

    What is the purpose of music?

    No Max etc. is used.

    No semantic "interpretation" is possible because music doesn't have any semantics if (cultural) cliches are exluded.

    MetaSynth generates only small sound groups. Using another sw those sounds can be manually collected as a piece. Synestesia sw generates the whole piece in five seconds.

    You should compare the results with "Random MIDI notes.

    I guess the colour question got its answer when I awswered to William.


  • That is interesting lgrohn.  Though I do not see any answer to what the picture has to do with the music.  Are you saying that the mere timbre of the instrument is the only relationship to the picture?  Or does the software translate visual parameters of the picture into tonal/rhythmic variations?


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    @Another User said:

    Angelo - I am afraid that your internet Googling is not the reality of things here. 

    If I ever decide to restart formal music education, and go on to do a PhD in Music, I am definitely going to take the following approach, based on many previous threads here:

    1) Work out what the title of my thesis is

    2) Post the exact opposite of that title as an opinion on this forum

    3) Wait for Angelo to post a bunch of references explaining why I am wrong, and a bit of a moron

    4) That's my bibliography

    Should cut a year off the PhD.

    This ultra short doctorate above is not even good enough for a Honoris Causa Dubiosis


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    @nicks@aubergine.co.uk said:

    If I ever decide to restart formal music education, and go on to do a PhD in Music, I am definitely going to take the following approach, based on many previous threads here:

    1) Work out what the title of my thesis is

    2) Post the exact opposite of that title as an opinion on this forum

    3) Wait for Angelo to post a bunch of references explaining why I am wrong, and a bit of a moron

    4) That's my bibliography

    Should cut a year off the PhD.

    And...

    5) Make sure you carry a gun in case you run into Angelo - so you can either
    6) Shoot him or
    7) Shoot yourself

    Not only that we have talking aubergines in this forum but also apostles who give advice on how to kill archangels... reads like a libretto for a VIE CRUCIS short opera, maybe good for carrying 7,815 seconds of music:

    Absinthe, Bicycles and Merdre

     

    1st Act - Paulus and Dr. Aubergine (7,0815 s)

    Pilate: Make sure you carry a gun in case you run into Angelo - so you can either
    Barrabas and the Maria Choir: Shoot him or...
    Paulus: Shoot yourself

    2nd Act - The Passion As An Uphill Bicycle Race (circa 35 minute). Plot, to be set to music:

    Barabbas, slated to race, was scratched.

    Pilate, the starter, pulling out his clepsydra or water clock, an operation which wet his hands unless he had merely spit on them -- Pilate gave the send-off.

    Jesus got away to a good start.

    In those days, according to the excellent sports commentator St. Matthew, it was customary to flagellate the sprinters at the start the way a coachman whips his horses. The whip both stimulates and gives a hygienic massage. Jesus, then, got off in good form, but he had a fiat right away. A bed of thorns punctured the whole circumference of his front tire.

    Today in the shop windows of bicycle dealers you can see a reproduction of this veritable crown of thorns as an ad for puncture-proof tires. But Jesus's was an ordinary single-tube racing tire.

    The two thieves, obviously in cahoots and therefore "thick as thieves," took the lead.

    It is not true that there were any nails. The three objects usually shown in the ads belong to a rapid-change tire tool called the "Jiffy."

    We had better begin by telling about the spills; but before that the machine itself must be described.

    The bicycle frame in use today is of relativelv recent invention. It appeared around 1890. Previous to that time the body of the machine was constructed of two tubes soldered together at right angles. It was generally called the right-angle or cross bicycle. Jesus, after his puncture, climbed the slope on foot, carrying on his shoulder the bike frame, or, if you will, the cross.

    Contemporary engravings reproduce this scene from photographs. But it appears that the sport of cycling, as a result of the well known accident which put a grievous end to the Passion race and which was brought up to date almost on its anniversary by the similar accident of Count Zborowski on the Turbie slope -- the sport of cycling was for a time prohibited by state ordinance. That explains why the illustrated magazines, in reproducing this celebrated scene, show bicycles of a rather imaginary design. They confuse the machine's cross frame with that other cross, the straight handlebar. They represent Jesus with his hands spread on the handlebars, and it is worth mentioning in this connection that Jesus rode lying flat on his back in order to reduce his air resistance.

    Note also that the frame or cross was made of wood, just as wheels are to this day.

    A few people have insinuated falsely that Jesus's machine was a draisienne , an unlikely mount for a hill-climbing contest. According to the old cyclophile hagiographers, St. Briget, St. Gregory of
    Tours, and St. Irene, the cross was equipped with adevice which they name suppedaneum. There is no need to be a great scholar to translate this as "pedal."

    Lipsius, Justinian, Bosius, and Erycius Puteanus describe an other accessory which one still finds, according to Cornelius Curtius in 1643, on Japanese crosses: a protuberance of leather or wood on the shaft which the rider sits astride -- manifestly the seat or saddle.

    This general description, furthermore, suits the definition of a bicycle current among the Chinese: "A little mule which is led by the ears and urged along by showering it with kicks."

    We shall abridge the story of the race itself, for it has been narrated in detail by specialized works and illustrated by sculpture and painting visible in monuments built to house such art. There are fourteen turns in the difficult
    Golgotha course. Jesus took his first spill at the third turn. His mother, who was in the stands, became alarmed.

    His excellent trainer, Simon the Cyrenian, who but for the thorn accident would have been riding out in front to cut the wind, carried the machine.

    Jesus, though carrying nothing, perspired heavily. It is not certain whether a female spectator wiped his brow, but we know that Veronica, a girl reporter, got a good shot of him with her Kodak.

    The second spill came at the seventh turn on some slippery pavement. Jesus went down for the third time at the eleventh turn, skidding on a rail.

    The Israelite demimondaines waved their handkerchiefs at the eighth.

    The deplorable accident familiar to us all took place at the twelfth turn. Jesus was in a dead heat at the time with the thieves. We know that he continued the race airborne -- but that is another renaissance opera.


  • Angelo you're an Opera all by yourself....Does anyone know about the airborne part ? No we're all still primitive respectfully. But we have this instrument to describe the sounds when put together. They create something greater than any other art. Mathematicians can also proof this system. But it has something to do with the Famous one's birthday and its presence. what the hell is it ? Ther's a lot of people who claim they know. At the same time, Bach's music or Classical music is supposed to be for Children ? What's that all about ? Does that means there are great big men who understand everything ? They have a lot of Money .... The suffering Tchaikovsky went through by his own teacher. Rejected his first piano Concerto. He then left all wondering what really did his demise. How ingenious of him to leave that with his last symphony as a gift for some and a question for others. Schubert's symphony was regected by the orchestra musicians, claiming it was unplayable also...... Going back to William's original question. And another which has surfaced about the art comparatively by schubert as apposed to Schumann. How interesting ! As the piano was formed. Also the Technique did variably. During Schubert's Classical days, theories were at large. As apposed to Schumann's day's were Technique and playing were epic. To this day were playing is epic and not Composition on a whole. Hence, Then comes in the VSL Samples. A Break through in technology ! When I think of art in comparison to VSL Samples. I think of the Woodwinds of first thought. The flute runs. Wholtone coincidently ! all set for just a mere touch of a finger. The trills, The Glisses, the reps, the Trems, Ect... One can create anything at a touch of a finger. But the Wholtone technique's seems to take part in with the Woodwinds. And brass, Sax's, Percussions ect... Something as Simple as Taking any Diminished chord and sharpening any note 1/2 step. Thus Creating a Wholtone sound. Revel and Debussy wrote everything first from piano, then Orchestrated in Wholtones. But if understood, What is to stop one from creating streight from Samples ? Because the use of the Articulation as also at work here. the number of instruments are also a factor. The sheer technological breakthrough is Revolutionary. Apply the Flattened 9th., the Minor Ninth & the Dominant ninth. The Thirteenth Wholtone series, and Its impressionism. What a remarkable breakthrough in our time. Impressionism Verses Improvisationism. This Question is now still merking in Schools and runs a Vague, gray area to study and clarify. Meantime, The art of Orchestration using Samples has arrived !

  • [url]http://www.evergreenreview.com/102/fiction/duo.html[/url]

  • thanks