All I say is wow!!! What a great soundscape.
Thanks for all the insight and explanation.
Actually you made me review my template again!! ;)
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Mike...this is a great mock-up...... Great achievement. It just goes to show how working a template over time (years) is the only way to get there...very REAL. Question. Your "master-verb": The fake one you add, after the room........Which preset on Lexi 300? Are the er's turned OFF on this verb? Do you exxagerate the pre-delay so it doe s not get in the way of the room ER's?......How long is that taIl from the 300? thanx for sharing and "setting the bar" ;-) best, SvK
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I use a custom patch, which was just a tweak of the default, actually. It's a 3-second reverb with some of the lows and low-mids rolled back so it doesn't get muddy. I kill the pre-delay, because that just adds more "room" and I've already got that covered. This reverb is just for the "wet." There are differing levels of send to the master verb per section via an aux bus.
Thanks for the kind words, guys. I'm truly glad you enjoy the work!
_Mike
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Great thread and awesome realism on this mock-up Mike. SvK - I have horsed around with this using my Wizoo w2 (HDIR Concert) ir on a seperate FX bus. I seem to get pretty good results using about a 50-60 predelay to get out of the way of the beautiful Todd AO room ( I know you use as well).
I haven't yet worked on the lows and mid-lows on the w2 'master overall verb' but I think it a good idea and would be applicable on most material. My gut is saying the 225-300 range is going to need some cut. I'll try to report back what works here.
Rob
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Mike and SvK - I just ran an experiment with the piece I wrote for the VSL brass library last year - using this concept of a 'master verb' over the AV6 Todd AO room. I must say I really like it. I also used the 'wide' mics and think that gives some nice space around the samples.
BTW - I rolled off the low and mids on the 'master bus' verb and it reduces the mud quite a bit. This of course will be material dependent but I am liking the results. I think I could reduce these freqs and tad more on the master verb and still be good - perhaps better. There is plenty of 'warmth' coming from the Todd AO buses.
What do you think?
http://www.robelliottmusic.com/mp3s/Americana/Journey%20to%20Greatness%20(Joseph's%20Theme)_wide%20mics.mp3
Rob
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Hi Tanuj,
I know what you mean about Todd AO and the big busy stuff. Most of what I have been doing of late has been small, romantic, etc. and I couldn't ask for a better sound. Having said that I still feel - with some tweaking and balance of ER and tail, eq - that we can get there with it on the big stuff.
Do a search here for SvK's approach to using AV6 (seperating ER and Tail on seperate busses - for flexibility and control). I think it is the way to go.
I took an hour and put together this little diddy - made it busy (and rather lame [:P])- to show how with only sliding down the tail busses a tad and overall Wizoo verb slider much more (everything inlcuding eq being the same) - I get close to a final mix (these are the same exact IR and settings as the piece above). Of course from here careful attention to Eq, etc. will be key. I have purpose 'layered in' more on each sussequent phrase to hear the build up of notes has on the overall mix.
Again look for Savkampen's post on setting up AV - Good luck. This business of mixing is for sure a lifetime pursuit. I have really appreciated the kind folks on this board that have been so open to sharing their knowledge and experience.
http://www.robelliottmusic.com/mp3s/Misc/Skitzoid%20strut.mp3
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@mverta said:
Maybe it would be a good idea to move experiments to another thread so your tests don't get lost in this discussion...
_Mike
Very true Mike. I also think it's not great etiquette to post other music on an existing thread - although Rob is very keen on all the technical reverb/eq/overall sound/stuff and means well because he can't help himself. :)))))
What I would observe though - this business of having to constantly play around with reverb is bullshit and distracts from the music. What's needed is a device that stops all this reverb messing around crap and just allows you to dial in whatever hall sound one wants and get on with the important stuff.
Playing around with all that kind of mess should remain in the domain of dance (music) creators.
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Couldn't agree more with PaulR about the need to rid ourselves of the virtual room bullshit, It's been driving me crazy for years .. as anyone who listens to the podcast probably knows. I do my best to find my way into a good mix but I'm never 100% satisfied with the results. My TODD AO mix template has me around 90% happy . Like all of you .. I'm really hoping that MIR will solve these issues. The issues concerning mix are practically endless .. and I could only satisfy myself with an answer to these if I actually sat down in a scoring stage .. and watched a recording session and the mixing to see how it's really done. But seeing as this is unlikely to happen (And believe me I've asked around :P) then I'm stuck with the bullshit problems of mix. . So roll on MIR .. or some other thing to let us have our virtual room without all the crap that one has to try to figure out. I swear by now I should have earned a PHD with all the researching and stuff I've done ... I dare say so do some of you too :P
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Also couldn't agree more with Paul and Hetoryn (sorry again Mike for the posting of music[:$]). My day is already filled with trying to get into the heads of various directors and THEN coming up with something they don't laugh at when heard. I just don't want to spend so much time fussing with making samples 'sit' right. One more vote for MIR!
Rob
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Go to the root level of his website, watch the infomercial ;) then click on to his music. The Forbidden Warrior tracks are live musicians and very impressive. The Batman film is amazing, not sure if that's sampled or live.
I like his idea of using multiple impulses, instead of the same room for every section. It seems like you might get a strange buildup doing it that way, where multiple impulses even themselves out. Then again my G5 Dual 1.8 chokes on even one instance of Altiverb 6 in Logic 8, so I need to get a faster machine to test all of this out. :(
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Until you guys mentioned it a couple of days ago, I had no idea the Todd-AO IR had been released. So I broke down my template, and started over.
I got out some of my live recording Pro Tools sessions, and just A/B'd with my virtual setup, matching as best as I could.
It's going to take a few more days of tweaking, but here's a sneak preview (sorry for the sloppy playing...)
[url=http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/TAO_Test.mp3]Todd-AO Test[/url]
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Mike...
Are the examples on http://www.mikeverta.com/ > Music
all orchestral recordings, or where some made with samples?
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Heightened low end of orchestral movie soundtracks compared to conventional symphonic recodings:
What do you think is the cause for the big low end which resonates in the scoring stage recordings. Is it the resonance of the stage picked up by the main system in conjunction with closed micing of the deep instruments; choice of microphones... or what is it?
Are those low frequencies which are very apparent, for example when a gran cassa is hit but are actually always present, further enhanced in the mix e.g. with artifical reverberation, or does the "natural" recording already have this low resonating, respectively the mixer doesn't enhance much or nothing?
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Those near-infrasonic bass frequencies occur naturally - not just for the GC but also especially for the basses, but only a few engineers have techniques to bring them out without using artificial enhancement. My engineer, Shawn Murphy, is one of them. I asked him that very question directly during one of our first sessions, because it was a signature thing on his recordings, and he told me they were in there, you just have to know how to pull them out.
_Mike