If I could throw my $.02 (not that that means much with currency nowadays[:D]

Go 'whacko' on the tempo variations (figure what will be too much and back it off - just a tad) - for this piece it just needs to be more emotive (on the tempo and velxfade side of things).   Still sounds too robotic to my ears.

Also use attack and release - via controllers and that will help on the expression.

--I will say this is a nice exercise to see something get better and better.   This is the sort of process / example  that helps all our programming chops.

Rob 

Hi Rob,

This thread is going to be more interesting every day now! Thanks for your contribution. I have made an even more rubato version (version D)already:

http://www.musesamples.com/MP3-ErikOtte/OverTheRainbowD.mp3

I think, that more changes of tempo will be unnatural, but perhaps you're not satisfied yet....

The tweaking on the VelXfade and the attack/release on all channels will take some more time, but I am working on it. It makes a difference indeed, as far as I have noticed until now!. Thanks again. I'll keep you informed of course.

regards,

Erik

Nice to see how it improves each time. I think this forum is really fantastic, not like other forums to post only bugs and issues with the software, instead to talk about artistical and really usefull and helpful things to improve your way of working with a lot of experts that really know what they're doing and saying.I really have to say my compliments to VSL and all users what they've made out of that forum is fantastic! (there are really far too many messy forums out there...)

I'll get my VI SE in a couple of weeks and I would like to ask you (only if you have time, of course) to show the same arrangement with the ordinary "orchestral strings" only (instead of your mixture of Appasionata/Chambers). Would be interesting to hear the difference, as I'll purchase only the Standard Edition at the moment.

Thanks and best wishes!

Andie 

Dear Andie,

on your request................

http://www.musesamples.com/MP3-ErikOtte/OverTheRainbowD-SEOrchStr.mp3

So on channels 1-4: vl-vl-vla-vlc, with the sustain, legato and portamento patches form the Orchestra strings SE.

I am still working on version E now with the original track settings. 

Enjoy this version!

Erik

Hi,

Now the version after tweaking the attack and release parameters in most (!) tracks.

Just for the record I have added the proper midi file this time (the last one was corrupted somehow, some notes were shifted, don't ask me how). 

http://www.musesamples.com/MP3-ErikOtte/OverTheRainbowE.MID

The sound file is here: 

http://www.musesamples.com/MP3-ErikOtte/OverTheRainbowE.mp3

I am intending to make another step forward with some small pitch randomizing. Is this a good idea? 

Please post your comments! You are most welcome to do so!

Regards to all, Erik

Hi,

This is the randomized pitch version: I made very small changes of pitching (with a special plugin for this), plus a more elobarated EQ per channel, also with very small differences.

http://www.musesamples.com/MP3-ErikOtte/OverTheRainbowF.mp3

Hope to hear from somebody soon!

Regards, Erik

Thanks for doing the "orchestral string" version for me! really nice.

Thanks and all the best,

Andie 

@DG said:

OK, there are various things that can be done to improve the programming. Let's deal with the first, and most important two (IMO) first:

1. The tempo is far too static. Personally I would play the arrangement in without click, wrong notes and all, and the match my click track to the performance that I just did.
2. Each string line needs to have its own life and shape. It sounds very blocky to me. I know that you've done some nice little faces, but they need to be much more independent of each other. Make sure that you play all the divisi in on separate tracks, so that they are also independent.

When you have dealt with these points, assuming that you agree with them, then post again, and then we can see how to take it to the next level.

 

DG<>

Hi Colin,

I just tweaked the tempo in the sequencer I used (Samplitude). Most sequencers have a tempo function (Sonar, Tracktion etc.), A simpler version of this function is implemented in notation software like Sibelius.

As far as I know only Notion has a real tempo track built in, but this software is not my favourite one.

Erik

Hi Erik,

very, very nice arrangement, and thanks for posting it. I have downloaded your midi file to try it out, but I am not sure what you mean by this:

"Settings on channels 5-8 the chamber strings vl-vl-vla-vlc: sustain CC2 0-10; legato CC2 11-67; portamento CC2 >68"

I think you are meaning the controllers for each sustain, legato, and portamento patch but I am not sure.

Thanks if you can let me know.

best,

Steve.[:D] 

Hi Erik,

don't worry about replying. I just loaded up the vsl player, and I realized that you were using cc2 as a patch controller, and I've worked out how to do it. 

best,

Steve[:D] 

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your compliments, but it is Frits Bayens, who made this arrangement, not me!

Furthermore: you could try out the orchestra strings instead of the chamber strings: it gives a more mellow sound.

regards,

Erik

 Hi Erik,

sorry, my mistake - what I was really meaning was your performance of the piece was great. I also think the arrangement by Frits Bayens was a great arrangement to work with also.

best,

Steve[:D] 

Hi Steve,

In this case: thank you of course!

I thought: why not do it myself, the version with the orchestra strings & appasionata strings SE (plus). 

Last changes (I just starting to feel now like a software designer, eliminating all kind of bugs, haha):

1. different rubato playing

2. added: Contrabass appasionata - sustain (this was an advice off the record from Beat Kaufmann, thanks for this Beat!)

3. added a warmifying plugin as last one in the chain of plugins

So here is version G: 

http://www.musesamples.com/MP3-ErikOtte/OverTheRainbowG.mp3

Just for the record: now we have : the midi file - Midibag (with pitch and speed parameter on, works only in my config with Tracktion as sequencer) - VSL SE - Origami (as 1st reverb tool) - and a little overall verb from Ambience, T-Racks24 does the rest.

TobyBear's Midibag is freeware, but a donation is always welcome by the way, check on http://www.tobybear.de/p_midibag.html

Will this be the last & definite version of Over the rainbow? Come on readers..........post your comments again!

regards to all,

Erik

PS why not starting a kind of project in which readers of this forum and users of the VSL can show their capacities to others? So for example a nice classical piece, not too long, with many orchestral colouring possibilities (Moussorgsky, Ravel, Debussy???). All based on one and the same basic midi file (only notes). This could be a wonderful idea to share ideas! Anyone with me??

Hi Erik, well done on this piece, sounds great. Though I must say, I feel it's lost/losing something as you continue to try and refine it..Even comparing your version G with your first version, I feel something is lost..Sorry I'm being vague, haven't much time to analyse right now and it's only my personal opinion. But what what I can say for sure, is your first version was more delicate and soft and I felt this suited the piece, except for the overused portamento I didn't think it needed to much work..

The dynamics have certainly improved though, but I also noticed in later version the melody is getting buried in places too.

But feel free to disagree, I'm no expert either..just going by what my ears tell me :)

Hi SolarRain, nothing wrong with your ears, I think.

I certainly don't disagree with you on o.a. the issue of what you call "the melody is getting buried in places too".

However it was a challenge to implement several advises.

Hi Erik

It has become a very nice piece since the first published version, congratulation!

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Nevertheless, if you are willing to do something more try to improve the mix.

It seems to me that there are two orchestras which are playing - one on the left and one on

the right side. But I assume you want to have them as one orchestra.

My impressions while listening to your last version:

1. There is a gap between left and right

2. The violins are too "weak" or the basses (violas, cellos, basses) are too loud.

3. The balance cellos <> basses is in favour of the basses.

How to improve the left - right - gap?

a) leave the positions of the 1st violins and the cellos.

b) move the 2nd violins, the violas and maybe the double basses more to the centre.

How to improve the volume balance within the instruments?

a) Mute the 1st violins, the cellos and the double basses

b) Balance the volume between the 2nd Violins and the Violas

c) Add the cellos and try to find the balance for them

(don't touch the balance between the 2nd Violins and the Violas anymore)

d) Switch to solo cello then and add the basses to the cellos now.

Attention: increase the volume of the basses only a little. When you notice

them it could be to much already (Tip: Handle them as an effect ).

e) Switch on all the balanced instruments and check the result.

If necessary: Make fine adjustments.

f) Add now the first violins. They play the melody so they have to be the

leaders... the volume leaders as well. Increase the volume until they

have reach this leader-level (more is better than too little).

[;)] You will also find the procedure in my tutorials (audio)

(Step 2: Setting Levels, with pictures and an audio example...)

Good luck!

Beat Kaufmann