I use Logic and VE. If you use VE for panning, then route them to aux channels you can dsp them with logic effects. I do this and it works really well. Another advantage of VE in Logic is that you can quickly edit the Instruments within VE.ie move from one to the other quicker.
I'm afraid some people get quite up themselves when replying to questions, Go with it ask away, and someone will help eventually with with manners.
Goodluck
Cheers Ian
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No probs, after installing soundflower here is what you should do.
1) Open Audio Midi setup in Applications>Utlities
2) Click the Audio Tab. Now go to the audio menu item and click on Aggregate Device option
3) You need to create a new aggregate device so click the plus sign and name it - myAggDevice
4) Now in the list below, first select your audio device (in my case my apogee) and click the use checkbox and then select soundflower and select it's use checkbox
Thats the audio setup!
Now to setup the midi
1) Click on the midi tab in the Audio Midi setup
2) Double click on IAC Driver object
3) In the properties box add two new ports, call them Strings and Brass etc
4) Make sure the device is online and hit apply.
Now setup Vienna Ensemble
1) Open VE
2) Open Preferences and select the aggregate device under the audio tab
3) Select the IAC ports you created under the midi tab
4) Now create your vienna instruments, select the IAC driver under port dropdown say Strings and a midi channel. At the bottom of the mixer channel select the output channel.
This is were it gets a bit tricky. The first channels in your aggregate device relate to your audio device, the rest to soundflower. So for example you have a two channel audio device then outputs 1-2 will be your audio device, outputs 3-18 will be soundflower. So inside VE route your outputs of your instruments to the soundflower channels not your audio device.
Finally, set up logic!!
1) Open logic and set your audio device to be the aggregate device.
2) Set your main output channel to outputs 1-2 etc for your audio device
3) Create a new external instrument, set its output to one of the IAC's you created for example strings.
4) Then as you normally do, use the option create with next midi channel, these midi instruments will now be sending to the external VE
*Warning - in the enviroment you must not use the SUM option in your physical Input device as it will cause a loop. Therefore go to you clicks and ports layer and cable from your keyboard only to the sequencer input
5) To get the audio back in, simply create a aux track and set it's input to match the channel numbers that you had set in the VE. And set it's output to the master output channel.
You should now be able to send midi out of Logic to the VE's running and rout the audio back into Logic to process.
Hope this helps!!!
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Thanks - there are a couple of solutions to my questions and I tried yours first because it looks pretty simple. I think there must be something wrong with the way that I setup VE in the first place. I am working on a track where I made my first VE setup sheet with 3 layers of orchestral percussion, trumpets, horns, trombones, tuba (and strings that I am not using yet) They all are all called instrument 1 in Logic and just work on different midi channels. I was using aux 1 for a reverb send. When I add aux two it is added to every instance of VE and all at the same level (just like it is with aux 1) so these tracks are still coming back as a single ensemble where I cannot edit individual tracks. Sounds like I have built this incorrectly, Any other ideas? Thanks, Ed
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I think I might have a solution. Set up VE as a multi- instrument as shown in manual. IE: like ultrabeat. When you go into VE and put your different vi 's to different ouputs, go back to mixer in Logic and click on the + sign it adds another aux track with the vi instance in it. Now you can use the DSP of logic to use on your instrument, independently. Cheers Ian
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I found this also to be useful........... http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/17411/124464.aspx#124464 "In Logic's environment, create a new multi-instrument - - this will have 16 channels. Wire the multi-instrument to Instrument 1 on the MIxer page of the Environment. (To move an object from one layer of the Environment to another, select the object, hold down the option key while selecting the layer of the Environment to which you wish to move the object.) Name the Multi-Instrument something like VE 1. After you have done this, load a multi-channel instance of VE into Instrument 1. Go to the arrange page. You will find that, when you right-click or contol-click a track, you can reassign it to VE 1, channels 1 - 16). Load the instruments into VE as you desire. IMPORTANT NOTE: If you are using what is, at present, the most current OSX version of VE - - dated 2007-11-08 - - DO NOT ATTEMPT INSTANTIATION OF MORE THAN ONE INSTANCE OF VE. ((This will still give you 16 channels to work with.) If you instantiate more than one instance of VE, it will work as long as the file is open, but once you've saved and closed the file, attempting to open it again will result in a crash. In other words you will not be able to re-open the file! It is important to remember that, in Logic, MIDI Volume (CC7) changes will affect all 16 channels of a multi-instrument simultaneously. Since this is rarely desirable, use MIDI Expression (CC11) to affect changes in level for each channel - MIDI Expression settings can function independently on all 16 channels."
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Well this did not work for me. In fact I now can't get any sounds out of Logic or VE. Environment issues likely. in the first section you said 4) Now in the list below, first select your audio device (in my case my apogee) and click the use checkbox and then select soundflower and select it's use checkbox (I GET MY AGGREGATE FOR DEFAULT INPUT AND OUTPUT - SYSTEM OUTPUT IS SOUNDFLOWER) ABOUT VE YOU SAID: Now setup Vienna Ensemble 1) Open VE 2) Open Preferences and select the aggregate device under the audio tab 3) Select the IAC ports you created under the midi tab 4) Now create your vienna instruments, select the IAC driver under port dropdown say Strings and a midi channel. At the bottom of the mixer channel select the output channel. (ALL I GET IS THE SAME BUS AND PAIRED OUTPUTS 1&2, 3&4 ETC AND NOT THE NEW NAMED CHANNELS ABOUT LOGIC YOU SAID: 1) Open logic and set your audio device to be the aggregate device. OK 2) Set your main output channel to outputs 1-2 etc for your audio device OK 3) Create a new external instrument, set its output to one of the IAC's you created for example strings. (IS THIS IN THE ENVIRONMENT WINDOW? I CAN SEE THE NAMES LISTED IN PHYSICAL INPUT, CREATED A NEW INSTRUMENT BUT STILL NO SOUND 4) Then as you normally do, use the option create with next midi channel, these midi instruments will now be sending to the external VE (SORRY- NO CAN DO) I can see midi happening from my keyboard through the 828, this does not make it to the VE. I do appreciate you taking such time to explain this to me. I wish it would work as simply as you state it. Is there something that I am doing wrong? Thanks, Ed
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@edhendersonmusic said:
Hello DG, You are quite wrong to admonish me for not reading the documentation - I did read it. Many programs I can get away with following my nose but not with Vienna. The documentation is not clear where the outputs end up (if I am trying to work within my recording program - Logic) - they don't open up in Logic - perhaps I misunderstand the routing and if that is the case, please let me know, Can't wait for 64 bit. Thanks for explaining the RAM allocations, All the best, EdIt was not meant as any sort of admonishment, more of a joke, but in any case I think that your problems are Logic related, rather than VE.
DG
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@icgant_7585 said:
I'm afraid some people get quite up themselves when replying to questions, Go with it ask away, and someone will help eventually with with manners. Goodluck Cheers IanI guess that'll be me then. It certainly isn't you, with your enormous post count over 4 years.
DG
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The thing is though Daryl - hate to admit it but - a lot of people like me just don't have the bandwidth to work these things out and even with kind people like yourself and Nick explaining in writing just ain't enough. Tech-no twits like me need pictures and Janet & John styled dialogue - otherwise I wind up having to get someone in to explain and set it all up (which costs) - which always happens actually.@DG said:
Paul, I don't really see how using a plugin within Logic can be too taxing, but then again I've never tried it. It is all so easy in Cubase and Nuendo, so maybe I've been spoilt by this.
DG
I just don't have the time or patience to understand all this stuff. I like using it all eventually -but can't work it out for myself, or at least can't be bothered if it looks too convoluted in print. A 6 year old child could do it.
But you can never find a 6 year old child when you need one.
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@Maya said:
Who are Janet & John?
Janet and John were featured in an old series of books for kids learning to read. It was all very innocent, where all families had a mother and father living with them, there was no such thing as child abuse, and gay still meant happy.
DG
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DG.....sorry i don"t spend my life on this community...i suppose being bitchy is your life...cheers
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@icgant_7585 said:
DG.....sorry i don"t spend my life on this community...i suppose being bitchy is your life...cheersWell that's telling me. I prefer to see myself as unselfish and not in the least self centred, which is why I like to teach and help people. Obviously we are not the same on that one.
Anyway, I'm not going to stoop to name calling so enjoy your life, such as it is.
DG
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PROBLEM SOLVED: Just so you know what the end result was for my situation: I phoned Ilio, the North American distributor for VI (and Stylus RMX etc...) - Aaron answered right away and quickly helped me make my setup work which is - a 16 track VE with all tracks returning through the master bus using my MOTU 828 MK2, a 16 channel software instrument running VE in Logic - so I have separate automation data per midi track and individual sends through the VE program page (not in Logic) This does work. Still, if it were possible it would be great to have access to the sends and VST plugins that I have in Logic on a per midi track basis. Sounds like non logic users have that anyway - perhaps VSL will make it happen for we Logic users. Otherwise, as all of you know, this is a library of wonderful sounds and very usable for my work, Many thanks for all the input from all of you - please understand that there was no offense intended or taken by me in these threads - it's great that we have this forum, All the best, Ed
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Ed, I'm glad to hear that it has been sorted out for you.
I still find it hard to believe that you can't have multiple outputs from a muliti-timbral plug in Logic. I know that all DAWs have limitations, but this seems rather strange. Maybe one of the resident Logic users will be able to help.
DG
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@DG said:
...... One of the best reasons for you to use VE is that you can pan instruments properly; something which I'm told that Logic does quite badly, even with the Direction Mixer (?) plug.DG
What's bad about Logic Panning ?
For me, the main reason I stopped, for the moment, to use VE is that I end up to deal with 3 levels of mixers in Logic ! The VE mixer, the MIDI multi-instrument mixer and finaly the virtual instrument mixer. This is not VE fault but because of the limitations of virtual instruments with multi-output in Logic (aux are not midi capable).
And because automation is almost always important for me, I have to use the aux tracks for that. That means in the Arrange window, I have a MIDI track (midi multi-instrument) for the MIDI data and then also the corresponding aux track for automation and effects. And because of that, the workflow become really complicated when you have a lot of instruments because everything become duplicated !
I almost would have prefered to get a Vienna Instrument update that would make it finally remember its window position because that's really a big drag. But its seems it will never happens ;-(
Michel
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Well I've just tried to use the VE within Logic. And I gotta say that I still don't get it. SO I can open up an instance .. fill it full of stuff .. but so what .. how do I assign the instances to Logic tracks .. can't have all this midi on one track :P . The 16 outputs don't really do much for me as I suspected since I only have a Stereo output .. although it's very cool to have the option. VE is a real tease to me. I like it .. I want to use it .. but man it's a bloody mystery to know how to get it doing anything useful. . Not much point having an instance of VE on 25 tracks .. sort of defeats the purpose :P So just how does one get midi tracks channels .. or whatever one uses to talk to the stuff within the VE instance. It seems that the IAC stuff I set up doesn't work within Logic .. although that does make sense since it's not having to talk to anything outside of logic. . Grrr .. headache.