violin sections

[nicolas.soulat]

Hi everyone, I never posted here before so please accept my greetings all the community and specially the amazing vienna staf I wanted to know something about violin section on a real orchestra and here in vienna instruments. I saw on the wonderful tutorial video for special edition (on the overview) something that bother me a little and maybe you can help me on this one. All the violins samples were recorded with 14 players. So when i'm drawing 2 notes on the sequencer map does it mean i have 28 players playing at the same time only in one violin section? Is it possible to split one 14 players section in two subsections (the 7th ones splaying an A and the 7th others an E)? How could i handle such an amount of violin players? Thanks very much for your help. Best regards, Nicolas.

[Paul]

Hi Nicolas,

welcome to the forum [:)]

Your question is one of the reasons why we have recorded different section sizes:

Appassionata Strings (20/14/12/10) 

Orchestral Strings (14/10/8/6)

Chamber Strings (6/4/3/2) 

This way you can mix and achieve different sounds and sound combinations.

Best,

Paul 

[mplaster]

 Hey Nicolas. i had the same question when i first got Orchestral Strings. I aksed about it on a post located here:

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/17106.aspx

so technically, the only way to TRULY have the exact number of  individual instruments playing would be to use SOLO strings, and play each part 7 or 14 or whatever times. SO yes, playing a chord results in an artificially multiplied (and not TRULY authehtic) number of strings

>michael 

[DG]

@mplaster said:

 Hey Nicolas. i had the same question when i first got Orchestral Strings. I aksed about it on a post located here:

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/17106.aspx

so technically, the only way to TRULY have the exact number of  individual instruments playing would be to use SOLO strings, and play each part 7 or 14 or whatever times. SO yes, playing a chord results in an artificially multiplied (and not TRULY authehtic) number of strings

>michael 

I'm afraid that playing each part more than once wouldn't work very well. Some developers talk about Ensemble building using that sort of technique, but as yet there is no evidence that it works. In fact all of the evidence is to the contrary.

However, if you also have Solo strings, layering on top of Orchestral Strings can, with the right mix, make the section sound smaller, so it won't sound like 28 violins any more.

DG

[nicolas.soulat]

Wow thanks you very much for all these answers :o) So, technically, on the overview video, Christian is kind of breaking this "rule" but demonstrates on the other hands it's totally possible to have a nice result anyway. I'm still "afraid" to develop on the same violin section, several notes, how would it be handled in a good mix? The idea spliting violin (or other instruments) section is pretty seducing but as Paul said, it would be better to use the apropriate section. This leads me to my last question : are the apassionata strings the same strings than the orchtrals only much more players or is the type of instruments or playing tehcniques are differents? Thans again for al your answers, i have so much more to learn, i'm very excited. Thanks for bringing vienna instruments to life. Best regards, Nicolas

[Beat Kaufmann]

@nicolas.soulat_8658 said:

...This leads me to my last question : are the apassionata strings the same strings than the orchtrals only much more players or is the type of instruments or playing tehcniques are differents? ...best regards, Nicolas

 

Hello Nicolas and welcome here at VSL

If you are interested in details click to each library. There you will find demos and a section "Sample Content" as well. Compare the desired ensembles. http://vsl.co.at/en/211/442/344/314.vsl

Articulation-System 

1. VSL has a system of sample articulations which "is going through every kind of instrument/ensemble".  Further, the articulations are brought together in groups: Short-/Long- Notes / Dynamics / Trills / ... These groups are equal for every instrument too.

Example for the group "Short-/Long- Notes": staccato short, staccato long, portato short, portato long, sustain with Vibrat, sustain without Vibrato, sustain with prog. Vibrato, ....

2. If you have got these therms for one instrument you will feel at home with the oboe as well as with the tuba.

 

Appassionatas 

3. The sample-pool of the Appassiona-Strings is a bit reduced if you compare it with the Orchestra Strings (Have a look at the particular Sample Total).  Example for the group "Short-/Long- Notes": It has no portato (détaché) long, no sustain without vibrato,...

Nevertheless, have trust in VSL that they always offer the most important sample-types so that you will be able to play the music which is typically for a certain instrument - even if its content is a bit reduced. 

Once more: Compare the articulation tables.

All the best

Beat Kaufmann 

[nicolas.soulat]

Thanks you very much Beat :) Could you tell me if you ever used more than a "draw" on one string section? Is there some cases where it could be handled to have the viola section running, the 1st violin section and the second section with two notes (28 players). I'm very interested on this because i believe Christian is using in in the wonderful special edition demo Thanks again to you all Regards, Nicolas

[Beat Kaufmann]

@nicolas.soulat_8658 said:

Thanks you very much Beat 😊 Could you tell me if you ever used more than a "draw" on one string section? Is there some cases where it could be handled to have the viola section running, the 1st violin section and the second section with two notes (28 players). I'm very interested on this because i believe Christian is using in in the wonderful special edition demo Thanks again to you all Regards, Nicolas

 

Hello Nicolas

 

It is usal to combine different strings. And as DG mentioned, it’s not a problem to make divisi with strings.

Listen to this Waltz. 4 times the same sequence. Sequence 3 + 4 is played with 4 divisi strings  (violins appassionata) + a solo violin.

This makes 81 Violinists + 12 Cellos and some Basses = ~100 String Players… and it sounds as it sounds - nobody counts the strings. In sequence 3 you can't make out the 80 violinists in the background - I'm sure... perhaps in sequence 4 [:D]

Most time I combine Chamber Strings with Solo Strings:

BK_Bach_BWV_29_Sinfonia_VI_06.mp3  (Violins + Viola with S.Str.)

BK_BWV_11_Choral_VI_07.mp3

BK_Bach_BWV_541_Prelude_VI_06m.mp3  

(This trick makes the Chamberstrings even more agile)

In the early days (2004) we haden’t the Chamber Strings.

Then I combined the Orchestra Strings with the Solo Strings. Listen to the example. Together with the solo violins/violas it sounds like a Chamber Orchestra. That’s what DG mentioned above (It is an accompaniment for a Bass Singer).

BK_BWV_27_Aria_5_VSL_04_wet.mp3

All the best

Beat 

[nicolas.soulat]

Yeah! Thank you very much !!!!

This would be very helpful

how do you manage such a divisi?

For example on the 1rst violin section, i 'm going to perform a A sus Vib and an E (28 players), should i draw the two notes on the same midi track or sould i consider one note apart from the other?

Another thanks for your help, this community is like paradise for me, everyone is so available.

Regards,

[Beat Kaufmann]

@nicolas.soulat_8658 said:

Yeah! Thank you very much !!!!

This would be very helpful

how do you manage such a divisi?

 

Here is the paradise again[:D] 

1. I work out the line (violins 1 for example) either with the ensemble strings.

2. I double the Midi Track (together) with the keyswitches, open one more VI with the solo strins violin.

By the way I work with presets. So I can exchange the instruments very easy.

I have to adapt the midifile only a little - but not the keyswitches.

A basic preset for all instruments could be:

C0= staccato, C#0 = portato short, D0 = portato long, E0=legato, F0=dyn3s, F#0=sfz...  

something like that. Of course you will need more samples. Expand the basic preset and save it

together with your corresponding piece.

Beat