Mahlon - I'm sorry to hear that you're having the same problem but I am at least relieved to hear of someone else repeating it :).

I don't think the hardware has anything to do with it (I've tried a lot of different hardware and it all behaves the same with the same set of samples).

So you have one machine that works: it has the solo/chamber strings.  What are you running on the other machine that is having MIDI problems?  And here's a test you might do: swap the samples between the two machines and see if the problem follows the machine or the samples.

Oh yeah - how many MIDI ports are you using on the two machines?  Is the functional machine using fewer MIDI ports? 

Hopefully VSL will chime in with some suggestions soon...!!! 

rgames

DG,

The midisport 4x4 is on the DAW main computer, which is running XP32 and Sonar. The (2) slaves are running XP64 with the Wavecenter PCI cards receiving the midi in. Now, there might be a problem with the Wavecenter 64 bit drivers and midi, not sure. I couldn't work on it anymore last night, but this evening I will try some scenarios to see if either I can reproduce what happened or chalk it up to user error somewhere.

rgames,

Each slave computer has 2 midi ports which come in through the Wavecenter PCI cards. Both ports on each computer are enabled in VE, but I'm only using 1 port on each computer (Port 1 IN) at the moment.

On the machine (Computer VSL01) which has worked correctly so far:

App Strings ,L1 and (L2 in demo mode)

Chamber Strings, L1 and (L2 in demo mode)

Solo Strings, L1 and L2

Harp L1, and L2

On the machine (Computer VSL02) which gave me the glitch last night:

 Brass 1, L1 and L2

Woodwinds 1, L1 and L2

I will try your suggestion of switching the sounds tonight if I have time. So far, it's only happened with the one VE Project file which runs about 6.5 gigs on Computer VSL02. I tried reloading the matrices individually to make a new project file, and as of bedtime last night, MIDI was working on that project file. But I didn't have time to reload that file in one 'go' -- but I will tonight.

Thanks,
Mahlon

Well, rgames,

After several hours, I'm making some headway in finding at least a little consistency. VE definitely stops receiving midi. Whenever I load more than 13 channels in a standalone VE and save this as a project, the project won't re-open with midi working correctly. In fact VE is not recognizingn any midi at all when I open a project that has 14 channels with a matrix in each. If I have 13 channels loaded and save this as a project, it re-opens and works fine with midi. This has been consistent and is why my other slave hasn't displayed the problem -- because it's only had 10 channels loaded at most. IWhen I loaded 14 channels into it, the midi stopped working upon re-opening the saved project. Incidentally, if I don't save the project file, I can load up to 16 channels and everything works ok. It's just once I save the file, and re-open it that the midi stops. So, I guess I will contact tech support with this info and see if there something weird going on.

 Below (if you want to read it) is a bit of stream of consiousness writing I did while experimenting. It may help explain in more detail about my setup and what I did. I'm going to bed now.... my hard drives have had a time of it tonight...and so have I.

Mahlon

1. I have a 5.7 GB VE project file with 15 midi channels, one matrix loaded into each. This project file will load into VE but midi doesn't seem to be working. Midi is leaving Sonar 7 and going out the DAW's midisport 4x4 and then to the slave machine. But VE does not pick up any midi! (incidentally, I can play the patches from the VE keyboard by mouse-clicking, so I know my audio is OK)

2. However, if instead, I start from a clean slate (nothing loaded and full RAM in VE), I can individually load the same matrices as above into VE by hand, and the midi DOES work correctly. It's just once I save it as a project midi won't work. But this hasn't been true for all projects -- smaller projects with less midi channels load ok.

3. So, to experiment, I've decided to load the individual matrices one at a time, AND SAVE a new project file after each additional matrix. In other words, I load my matrix Flute 01, then save the project as Project Flute 01, reboot the computer, start VE, then reload the saved Project Flute 01. If all goes well, I add another matrix (say, Oboe 01), save both matrices as a new project (Project Flute 01 Oboe 01), reboot, start VE and reload Project Flute 01 Oboe 01, then add another matrix, save, etc. etc.

...you can imagine how long this is taking once several instruments are loaded..... keep imagining....I'm loading up midi channel 13 right now, and so far so good (even on such an unlucky number)....

Ok. It broke on midi channel 14. After saving the 14th matrix, and then reloading that Project (with 14 midi channels), the midi stopped responding. Now, I'm thinking that why my other machine may be working fine is because I have only 10 midi channels loaded. hmmm.......just confirmed, the other slave loses midi connectivity at channel 14 loaded.....

Yes - I've had the same behavior: I can load up a number of channels on-by-one and they seem to work sometimes but then won't work at all when I re-load the saved project.

I now recall that I went down a similar path many weeks ago when I first started debugging this problem.  But I got sidetracked into trying to match VSL's hardware setup... I guess it's time to revisit it.

I'm willing to bet all your MIDI channels will work so long as your total sample usage stays below 3 GB.  That's my experience.  I can get all MIDI ports/channels to work as long as I stay under the 3 GB limit.

So maybe it's a combination of the 3 GB limit and the total number of channels being used.

But it doesn't seem possible - I've seen posts from people using 7+ GB of samples.  Surely they must be using more than 13 MIDI channels, right?

I'll do some more testing today and see what I can come up with.

rgames

I'll try loading under 3 gigs in 14 or more channels tonight.

Mahlon

Perhaps if someone else who has a xp64 system with 8 GB ram could also test this.

Try loading more than 3 GB of samples into 13 midi channels in VE. Then save the file as a project and re-open it. See if Midi is being received. It should be. Then load one more matrix into channel 14 to make 14 midi channels and save this as a new project file. Re-load this file and see if the midi is being received.

Thanks if anyone has time to do this. That way I would know whether or not to start looking at my Wavecenter PCI card's midi as a culprit. (but since rgames is using different midi in devices and getting somewhat similar problems, I don't think right now that it's the midi/audio card).

Mahlon

Yeah - I seriously doubt it's the hardware.  I've actually tried three different soundcards: HDSP 9632, HDSP 9652, and E-Mu 1212m.  All have behaved the same.  And MIDI Over LAN behaves the same, as well.  It must be a problem with the VE.

rgames

rgames, I'm testing more now, but so far I've been able to load almost 5 gigs and things seem to be working. I've got 15 midi channels this time, so 14 channels isn't the magic number. Midi is still responding. I'm loading some different (and duplicate of each other) matrices than before. Will keep going......loading a little more now.

Mahlon

Midi stopped responding when I got to just about 6.3, or so, gigs. I'm going to give up for now, and try loading the samples in two instances of VE. I can't keep waiting for the VE to load these tests, taking 8 or 9 minute each time.

 Mahlon

Yes - once you get above 3 GB, it gets pretty random.  Sometimes it works fine, sometimes it sort-of works, but sometimes it doesn't work at all.  The only presets that work every time (for me) are those that stay below the 3 GB limit.

Today I tried going back and re-loading channels one-by-one.  I got all the way up to 5.3 GB and everything was working.  And it even worked after a reboot.  But after two reboots, it quit working and hasn't worked again since...

I'm certain VSL is hard at work debugging this problem.  I don't think there's any doubt that it has something to do with the VE.

rgames

rgames,

Are you able to open two standalone instances of VE at the same time?

Mahlon

I just loaded about 6.9 gigs into two matices -- so only 2 midi channels. Things worked fine when I saved as a project fileand reloaded. VE was receiving midi.

Mahlon

Re: standalone instances - yes, I can run two standalone instances just fine except for the fact that one instance produces unusable audio.  My soundcard (HDSP 9632) is multi-client, so I can route the two VE instances to different outputs on the card.  However, the audio only works from one instance.  The second instance produces audio, but it's horribly broken up and not usable.

But I can get all of the MIDI channels to work that way...  so it's a choice: do you want audio or MIDI?

rgames

Whenever I open a second instance of standalone VE, the computer crashes and reboots -- very consistently..... This happens on both slaves....arhhhggg.....

Mahlon

Does your sound card support multi-client operation?  A hard reboot like that sounds like a hardware problem...

I believe so. Is ASIO 2.0 multiclient?

Here's the card:

http://www.frontierdesign.com/Products/WaveCenterPCI/Specifications

rgames, what motherboard manutfacturer are you using?

Mahlon

Right now I'm using an ASUS P5W-DH (which, IIRC, is what VSL is using on their test machine).  Previously I had an ASUS P5B-E.  Both behave the same...

VSL has been very quiet on this problem over the last couple of weeks - any help here, folks?

I tried two MOTU 4x4 MIDI interfaces yesterday and they behave the same, as well.  The hardware shows MIDI activity but the VE shows nothing or only one port sometimes. 

rgames

Hi,

we are working on it. For now, one workaround seems to be to stop and start the VE engine (sometimes more than once) - at least that works in our testing environment.

Let us know if that improves your situation.

Best,

Paul 

@Paul said:

Hi,

we are working on it. For now, one workaround seems to be to stop and start the VE engine (sometimes more than once) - at least that works in our testing environment.

Let us know if that improves your situation.

Best,

Paul 

Paul,

Unfortunately, pressing the "stop engine/start engine" button does not fix the problem on my system. Still getting no midi input.

I'm sure you guys will find an answer, though.

Stopping/Starting works for me every now and then but not very often.

Maybe it has something to do with how the stars are aligned - I'll start watching the astrological charts and see if there's any correlation...[:P]

rgames