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  4. Anybody running VE with an E-Mu card under XP 64?

  • Anybody running VE with an E-Mu card under XP 64?

    R
    R

    In debugging problems with MIDI Over Lan and VE on a slave machine under XP64 I figured out that the MIDI problems went away when I disabled E-Mu's PatchMix DSP software.  Of course, that left me with no audio, so it didn't help much, other than to identify the source of the problem.

    E-Mu has 64-bit drivers available for their cards, and I am using them, but the PatchMix software is still 32 bit.  But I can't figure out how to make the card work without the PatchMix software running.  They're own site says that the entire card is disabled when PatchMix is not running.  So what's the point of the 64-bit driver?

    So, for those of you running E-Mu cards under XP64, have you figured out how to use the 64-bit drivers without the PatchMix DSP mixer?

    Thanks,

    rgames
  • F
    F

     Are you running the latest stable version of the drivers, or one of the betas of the next version (which E-mu call a 'preview')?

    I'm running their latest preview version of PatchMix etc. under XP x64, but all on one system, so I've not had to get MIDI over LAN working. I've noticed no problems with the E-mu drivers, however.

  • R
    R

    I don't think it's a beta - I didn't see any indication that it was.

    I had no problems, either, until I started running 64-bit apps under 8 GB...

    I did manage to get the audio working.  You need to run msconfig and remove CTHELPER.EXE from the startup.  That removes the PatchMix mixer but keeps the audio intact.  Unfortunately that screwed up my MIDI over LAN once again...

    Can't win on this one...  Hopefully VSL will be able to figure something out.

    Thanks,

    rgames
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    @rgames said:

    I don't think it's a beta - I didn't see any indication that it was.

    If you got it from the normal support site, it won't be (the last version there is 1.84-ish).

    The previews are available from here.
  • R
    R

    I'm still struggling with this after a complete re-install.  The VE shows MIDI activity just fine until the PatchMix app is running.

    fcw - what audio software are you using under XP64 and how much RAM are you using?  Everything works fine for me until I get to 3 GB.

    Thanks,

    rgames
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    ha - i just found drivers for XP64 for the EMU 1820 sitting here on the shelve ....v1.82 ... 15.11.2005 (?!?) ... no 1.84 though

     

    rgames, i forgot: how many GB RAM do you have in your machine? IIRC and it is 4, then 3 GB is the limit .... (rest is needed for kernel)

    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
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    F

    Cubase SX3, Kontakt 2, VE. I'm currently hovering around 700MB used by Cubase, with two Kontakt 2 VSTs and four VE VSTs loaded, and with the VE instance taking up around 2GB.

    I did a trial with SE and Cubase when I first got XP x64, and managed to load every SE matrix into a separate VST except saxophones, and Cubase was up to 3.7GB out of 4GB total.  This was before VE was available, so I couldn't get any further with 32-bit Cubase. However, it is possible that that was before I got the E-mu card, so I don't know how helpful that is.

  • R
    R

    Christian - I have 8 GB installed and about 7.6 GB shows available in the windows task manager with nothing running.

    fcw - OK, I'm a little confused, so bear with me!  You're running VE inside Cubase, right?  As a VST plugin?  And you have four instances of the VE, each taking about 2 GB a piece?  If so, you must have more than 8 GB RAM!  But maybe that's the trick - no single VE is using more than 3 GB.  Running the VE standalone, I don't have a choice because the E-Mu card is not multi-client.

    Thanks again!

    rgames
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    hmm - just a shot into the blue .... in your process list you see all 32bit applications marked with *32 (eg. the vsldaemon and the synsopos) ... is there anything else pointing to a possible *domain conflict* (which means the 64 and the 32 bit domain here) ... something related to audio or midi running also in 32bit emulation mode? this could be a reason why it starts to behave strange above 3 GB then ...

     

    usually it has been said that for audio the whole chain needs to be in the same domain - there might happen some *bridging* (like between 64bit VE and 32bit vsldaemon), but there is no guarantee it works under all circumstances. between VE and vsldaemon it has been designed to work, this may not apply to everything else.

    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
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    @Another User said:

    I don't have a choice because the E-Mu card is not multi-client.

    Are you sure?  I've had external an Kontakt process sending audio to one pair of channels on my E-mu 0404, with sends on those sending the audio back to Cubase, which also had a pair of channels open on the same card, routed to its actual outputs.

    --

    Frank Wales [frank@limov.com] 
  • R
    R

    Yeah - whichever instance of VE I load first takes all of the output channels.  I can load up a second instance of VE but the audio never works - they only work in the first one.

    OK - so the TOTAL amount of RAM you're using in any one process is less than 3 GB, right?  For example, if you go to the Task Manager and look at the processes, they're all less than 3.0 GB.  Right?  If so, that explains the difference - I get in to trouble when a single process (the VE) goes above 3 GB.  I think as long as all of your processes stay under 3 GB you're fine because you're running in a sort of quasi-32-bit and something like the PatchMix (which is 32 bit) might be ok in that instance.  My problem is that I don't have that option; I need a true 64-bit app.

    Christian - my *32 processes are as follows:

    SYNSOPOS.EXE *32

    EmuPatchMixDSP.exe *32

    vsldaemon.exe *32

    CTHELPER.EXE *32 (this is required by the E-Mu mixer for some reason)

    ctfmon.exe *32 (this is also required by the E-Mu mixer for some reason)

    None of these processes appears in a 64-bit version.

    I can load two instances of the VE, each with ~1.8 GB of samples, and the MIDI works fine but I can only get audio from one of them.  If I try to load everything in one instance of VE, the audio works by clicking on the VI keyboard but the VE stops responding to MIDI...

    rgames
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    this looks like some parts belonging to EMU stay in the 32bit domain and might have problems accessing or cooperating with more than 3 GB address space ...

    cthelper.exe is from creative labs and a kind of *helper* for communication between audio driver and other audio applications.

    ctfmon.exe is usually only needed for watching some text input - you might be able to deactivate it generally (attention: office XP or higher needs ctfmon)

    christian

     

    ps: if anyone can point me to a newer version of EMU drivers than the mentioned 1.82 this would be great - the location linked above appears empty and i also couldn#t find any beta drivers for the EMU 1820

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
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    @cm said:

    if anyone can point me to a newer version of EMU drivers than the mentioned 1.82 this would be great

    I got my v2.0 preview drivers from here, at the bottom.
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    thx - i've been not aware they are valid for the 1820 too

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • R
    R

    The v2.0 software seems to have done the trick - MIDI and audio both work now with > 4 GB of samples.  Man - that took a long time...

    I never saw those on the E-Mu site - you have to go look under the "Vista" drivers section to find the v2.0 XP64 drivers. ???  Makes sense to somebody, I guess.

    Thanks for the link, fcw.  It did the trick - unfortunately I already ordered a new sound card...[8o|]

    Also, the beta drivers expire after 30 days.  What's the reason for that?  I assume that if they don't work, you'll uninstall them right away.  So, if the updates fix your problem, they'll make certain you're screwed again in 30 days.

    rgames
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    @rgames said:

    Also, the beta drivers expire after 30 days.  What's the reason for that? 
     

    I think it's a way to make sure that beta drivers don't persist in the user base beyond when the released drivers appear. It works fine as a strategy, as long as they're not optimistic about when the drivers will be finalized.  Unfortunately, they've already refreshed them once, since the previous 'preview' expired in September.  I'm expecting that a new 'preview' will appear soon, in time to break your computer over Christmas, while the programmers are unavailable. [:)]