[URL]http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/16812/121083.aspx#121083[/URL] (your own thread, Felix! :-))
[URL]http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/14744/93391.aspx#93391[/URL]
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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[...] Specially looking at the Vi_perf-legato, itĀ“s hard to believe, that the different pan positions are natural problems. Specially if U compare the sounds of two legato notes with the same notes, played seperately, it seems more to me like the legatos have been recorded later with another micro-setting. And I think this could be fixed by some editing of the library. [...]
Felix - yes, we _do_ record the same note on different days, as our recording-sessions sometimes last several months, or almost years for a single instrument. But our microphone-setups are measured (and replicated) within a tolerance of maybe +/- 0,5 cm in x/y/z-axes, as well as the positioning of the players and the instruments themselves. In the SilentStage it's not exactly like "Hey, it's a bit hot today, let's try to sit closer to that open door!", you know ...? š
If you do lots of acoustic recordings in stereo yourself, you actually should know this phenomenon, and its even more perceptible in a room as analytic as ours.
We discussed the acoustic phenomenon quite a few times internally, since we can of course hear what you (and other users) write about. But where do you start to "fix" this natural phenomenon, and where do you accept what's going on? You always change the sound when you change phase-relatinships within a stereo-signal.
In addition, it would mean to re-edit the whole bunch of samples we already published - manually. Oh, and BTW - all loop-points have to be set again (manually) after you messed around with phase and run-time. All this neither funny nor cheap, while the fix for it is so easy: If you can't stand what happens in stereo, do what every sound-engineer would do in real life, too: Make the signal mono. 8-)
Kind regards,
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Ok, I'm quoting myself from the thread I mentioned above ([URL]http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/16812/121083.aspx#121083[/URL]):
@Dietz said:
Make a simple test: Listen to a slow sine-sweep on your favorite monitors. You will hear the tone wandering around, although neither you nor the speakers move.
Maybe you tried this already (... you never commented on this). Now try the inverse test: Put a static sine-tone on your monitoring (e.g. 440 Hz) and move your head a bit, or move you body forwards and backwards. You will be astonished.
Now imagine the speakes are the microphones, and you're the player ... ---- I'm sorry to admit that we _don't_ torture our musicians by tieing them up to a stake with their head and body (... ok, only sometimes [6]).
In any case: It's a well-known, natural acoustic phenomenon, and it simply happens in natural environments (read: real rooms, real instruments, real people).
All the best,
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
I donĀ“t think the that the string causes the panning. Specially when other or same notes of that string are moving to the right, whenever they are connected to other notes. No matter if you play a legato up or downwards, the second note is panned very right. Sounds pretty much like an editing not a natural accoustical problem in the case of the solo violin. Anyway. Even though I gave up my hopes of VSL fixing that, thanks for taking the time to discuss this.
I wasn't for one minute trying to say that the string change causes any panning; Dietz has already explained the cause of that. I was just trying to offer an explanation as to why the sound is different.
I know that this is a big deal for you, but I have to say that once I've narrowed the stereo width, and put it through a really small convolution reverb, I really don't hear any panning anomalies that sound unnatural to me. However, you could always automate panning, if you don't like what you hear. I don't envy you though, and I'm not sure that I would like the result.
DG@jbm said:
[...] I tend to make a mental triangle from my ears to the instrument. I then set the width to try to "cover" the space occupied by the instrument. This changes, depending how large the space is supposed to be - how far away I want to be - but it never makes for a very large width. Keep in mind that, because of the wide stereo recording, you're not losing any stereo information if you use a proper panner, like that in the VE. [...]J.
I couldn't have put it better! š
/Dietz
Hi J., we just wrote our comments parallel. So I read yours just yet. Since I donĀ“t want to say wrong thinks about VSL and I called the panning problem in the VI-perf-legato (solo) a bug. Play some notes above C5 legato (e.g. C5-D5, D5-E5, E5-D5...) Do you really consider the fade to the right on every legato - no matter in which direction - as a natural problem?!? Maybe thereĀ“s something wrong with my ears, but to me it sounds like the legato is more than 5 m fading to the right.
Felix, have you tried my suggestion (echoed by jbm) of narrowing the stereo width and then adding a little convolution reverb?
I'm not for one minute saying that what you are hearing is false, although it is certainly nothing like 5m, but you are listening in a false situation when you do it in full stereo width without reverb.
DG
I wish I could check it, but unfortuneatly I donĀ“t get Logic running, cause it crashes, when trying to open VE. But that belongs to other threads. IĀ“ll let you know, as soon as I get Logic running.