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  4. struggling to buy VI SE, but I just had a brilliant idea.

  • struggling to buy VI SE, but I just had a brilliant idea.

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    Ok, the reason I've been struggling about SE is the fact that it doesn't have the performances that I really want to have. Frankly, I don't know how much better SE will sound compared to the samples that come with Kontakt because I won't be able to do more complex passages with SE than I can already do with Kontakt.

    So I'm thinking, "Well, I really want the brass section to be very articulative, but I'd rather buy http://www.wallanderinstruments.com/ for brass than get VSL brass, especially SE version."

    So instead of buying SE, I can cheat as hard as I can and buy VI I CHAMBER strings (full version) for only $400 more than SE and it comes with ALL THE STRINGS! Orchestral Strings I and II would cost nearly $3000 to get all the strings.

    So now I don't pay for brass, I get really nice chamber strings to cover for orchestral strings, and then I buy the brass from wallander and each brass section is less than $200. So I can immediatly start buy VI I and never have to deal with SE! On top of that I have nice (very limited) Kontakt samples from VSL that I can cheat to the limits to cover the woodwind and orchestral strings if I really need them (plus it comes with limited percussion). But I plan on buying hand percussion and acoustic percussion before I buy VI percussion. So my percussion section will be pretty covered eventually.

    [6] - This is so brilliant! Comments? Questions? Concerns? Critisisms? Hate Flames?
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    Not brilliant in any way. You'd be pretty limited with almost everything you got, if orchestral is what you're heading to do. I'd check exactly what I'd get and compare it to the needs.

    Any ideas of what the pieces would sound like if done with such a constellation of libraries? That may be good for a experimental score, but for nothing for a conventional full blown orchestrated piece. I strongly suggest you to check the demos and articulation lists to see if the product really will fit your needs.

    All the best,
    PolarBear
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    @PolarBear said:

    You'd be pretty limited with almost everything you got, if orchestral is what you're heading to do.


    I know that already, and I it doesn't matter.

    I'm pretty set on this idea. I'd rather have expressive chamber strings than a full-blown half-baked orchestra. I want to have that freedom of creating very expressive passages than fight to do a simple repitition with SE even if it means only having brass and chamber strings for a while. Look what I created with Kontakt-vsl samples, maybe you already heard it:

    Elan Hickler - Ultima Online Renaissance - History of the Bell City (Vesper)

    Seriously, how much more articulate will SE be compared to Kontakt-vsl? Anyway, most of what I do is electronic music like ambience and hard techno, trance, etc, so really, I can wait for full-blown orchestra. Combining these chamber strings with my ambient pads and ethnic instruments (I'll want to buy Bela D Spiritual Winds), my mix of non-orchestral instruments and beautiful synths will suffice.

    How could this be a bad idea? [6] - I told you it's brilliant!
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    Advice remains. Do look into products you are aiming for, do check closely if that type of sound suits you. I'd rather weigh OC I + II Std vs. other strings if orchestral is really what you want to get in the end. CS could be limiting, and your piece also already shows you the style you have to stay with for quite a while. If it's for pad layering puropses and pop only I'd say get CS, but for a full blown orchestral score you can't get away with a few Kontakt samples. VI SE could be a well thought out beginning and later addition to your nevertheless expensive plans. You could test Ext. for quite some day without having to lay down the cash for it, so you could make use of that to buy you some more time while gaining the cash and invest in a more broad palette of sounds. As above, this is just my personal opinion from an purely orchestral point of view.

    Hope this helps,
    PolarBear
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    A purely orchestral point of view cannot work "here".... as in this thread.

    Now there's an issue i've raised that should be discussed -- that is how much more expressive is SE, really? How much more can its string or brass section do? And yes, I can't get away with Kontakt if I want to do decent-quality full-blown orchestra. How will SE be any better? I believe strongly that Chamber Strings will play a big role in realizing some of my ideas. I've never even been commissioned so I don't have anyone to tell me, "I WANT HORNS AND WINDS AND STRINGS AND BIG PERCUSSION FOR THIS BATTLE SCENE!"

    My responsability right now is to create music I want to create to develop my image and musical style so people commission me based on that. SE just won't help me because I have too many musical ideas that SE cannot realize, but Chamber Strings will be able to do a lot on its own. Listening to the demos it really sounds good for fantasy music (the string section of fantasy music, at least). I want to eventually have the full orchestral cube, why not go straight to the real stuff? Why spend money and just go half or even a just quarter of the way with SE version?

    One thing I've noticed with Kontakt samples at least is the strings legato is almost useless and never sounds better than without legato.


    Edit: Sorry for all my edits, but please don't take this thread personally. To me this thread is interesting. I'm not trying to bash on anyone. [:O] I just feel like sharing my thoughts and I'm happy to read yours.
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    Well, I didn't came here to change your mind, just thought you were looking for suggestions and that's what I was trying to give. For someone who did not use any of the mentioned products you are doing bold statements. I can't say more than I did, that the choice will be quite easy if you exactly know which task of yours which sample set is aimed at. Not only because you are looking at quite different products, from one end to the other of the whole company's stuff. I've seen people spending about that much cash like you who left unhappy after. They would have been better off with something like SE first.

    No offense taken btw.
    PolarBear
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    Hello both. Elan, have you checked out the SE articulation list at http://vsl.co.at/shop/articulations_special_edition_new.htm? You should be able to get a reasonable idea from that how expressive SE is. The deliveries are pretty basic, but you do get the excellent perf legatos and portamento string slide, which out-perform all other libraries IMHO. But SE's strength has to be its instrumentation rather than its articulations.
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    Elan, I own both Kontakt 2 with the bundled VSL sounds and Vienna SE. There is no comparison. SE kills Kontakt 2 for pure breadth of sounds. I mean, K2 is 6 gigs, Vienna SE is 85 gigs. Do the math. Plus you get Epic Horns, Solo Strings, Chamber Strings, Appassionata Strings, percussion, piano, SAXES which are in of themselves worth it. I spent $1000 in total for the basic and extended libs and I do not regret every cent that went towards this purchase. Just tonight I worked on a piece for winds and the performances legatos really sealed the deal. Remember you also get unison wind performance legatos too.

    I also own EWQLSO Gold Pro which is nice but nothing touches VSL's patented interval sampling. It really makes a difference.
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    Fiery Angel, but how awesome would it be to have the freedom of VI I Chamber Strings?

    Bah, I don't know what to say anymore! I love how this plan is so robust. I'll be extremely limited when it comes to full orchestral sound if I skip getting VI SE. But remember, LIMITATIONS ARE FREEDOMS IN DISGUISE! You have less to choose from so you are freed from making decision.. ok bad example.

    Maybe lets look at this from another stand point. How many of you like synth programming and creating rhythmic beds out of random percussion samples and EQing and adding effects to make them fit perfectly? I love that world of electronic music, it it's very limitless... but there's still lots of freedom... I really don't need to worry about having a full-blown orchestra. I'm still working hard to develop my electronic-music skills. With a huge foot in the electronic world and a slowly growing foot in the acoustic world I'm bound to do well.

    There's very few people that really desire to be awesome at the electronic and aocustic world at the same time, am I wrong? That's the kind of person I am. I'll focus on growing my electronic skills while I slowly acquire expensive and top quality acoustic instruments.

    Lastly, I swear, creating good electronic music is much harder than creating acoustic (orchestral, ethnic, etc.) music. With the acoustic world all the sounds are at your fingertips. Yes, sampling issues get in the way, but when they don't it's a different story. You don't have to invent the sound of, say, a violin. It's already there and ready to come alive! In the electronic world, you have to create your sound. You have to imagine it and bring it into existance before you can start bringing the music alive.

    I like to think of the electronic world representing the spiritual realm and acoustic world representing the physical realm.
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    @Another User said:

    There's very few people that really desire to be awesome at the electronic and aocustic world at the same time, am I wrong? That's the kind of person I am. I'll focus on growing my electronic skills while I slowly acquire expensive and top quality acoustic instruments.


    You will be surprised at how many people have done that and still continue to do so!

    Ah, I did not know this was true. I would like to find more of these people. I only know a few from various forums and places.