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  • Help with mixing/panning/effects etc?

    I feel I am pretty good at orchestration, but I don't know the first thing about recording an orchestra virtually in a computer. I need info on how to pan each instrument family, how to add effects like reverb and EQ, when to add those effects to individual tracks/instruments, and when to just do a master reverb for everything. All of this is so foreign to me.

    I'm curious, has anyone made a template that has all the panning, effects, reverb etc done ahead of time so that when they start a new piece all they need to do is record each instrument?

    Any help would be appreciated, thanks!!

  • Hehe .. welcome to the club. [:P] However yes there are a few templates out their .. and bits on knowledge. First .. check out Beat Kaufmanns site .. www.beat-kaufmann.com cos he has some great tutorials on everything VSL.

    A have some Logic templates for VSL on my site at www.elvenmusic.com .. under VSL & Tech .. and then look under the sub heading Reverb and Mixing tech. The first atricle is a complete template for an orchestra .. please bare in mind that these are suggestions .. and I could well be wrong in some of my findings ... just to mention [[:D]]

    In terms of orchestral mixing .. well there are no real rules but the main characteristics of mixing that I've observed is:

    1. You may want 3 layers of depth with your reverbs - 1 for strings, 1 or woodwinds, and 1 for brass and percussion.

    2. Generally the positions of the instruments are not all that wide .. no more than 36 degrees I have read somewhere so don't waste your time trying to ultra pan everything cos chances are it'll sound weird.

    3. Everyone does something different, so opinions will vary when it comes to asking about your work [[:D]] .. and of course everyone likes a different sound, but you'll find some good advice here if you post your work for comments.

    So I'd say go check out Beats site first and see what you can learn. You can even chime in to the Podcast which .. I like to think .. has some good ideas about mixing and such, and you can find the full archive of those on my site too.

    Hope this helps.

  • hetoreyn, thanks for this. I checked out about four of your podcasts and also your vidcast. Please keep them coming! VERY informative stuff. My only problem is a lot of what you do is in Logic which I don't use, but there's a lot of other valuable tips too that I will be certain to benefit from. And thanks a lot for the Beat-Kaufmann links, incredible wealth of information there. I've only touched the surface.

    Now all I have to do is purchase the dang thing. [:D]

  • I am hoping to expand my Templates to cover Cubase as well soon. But I also have a mix chart which is a big graph for mixing console settings and it shows you some ideas for panning and reverbing. Can be a useful tool for comparing things against. I need to update this at some point but perhaps you might find it useful.

    Can be found directly under the:

    -Mixing Tech-
    Hetoreyns (Early Reflections) Mix

    Topic section in:

    http://www.elvenmusic.com/vsl/reverb/reverb.html

    Certainly I recommend Beats site for learning all the nitty gritty of mixing with Cubase. Anyways .. good luck.

  • One of the approaches I tried to find acceptable panning and volume settings in my Logic (and GigaStudio) templates was to buy a score book from John Williams (SW episode 4 I believe) and to mockup a few pieces and constantly A/B-ing with the soundtrack while and adjusting levels, panning, EQ and ambience.

    This can really help as a startup. After that I kept comparing the loudnesses of individual instruments listening to soundtracks and checking if the relative settings in my template were close to that.

    Also make sure that you have a few "required" orchestration and instrumentation books that you will read at least 4 times while trying to imagine what the stuff you read can do for your music and for your setup. Get at least the Rimsky-Korsakow, Adler, Berlioz & Strauss and Forsyth books on orchestration. They all tend to cover and focus on slighlty different aspects of orchestration and instrumentation, and they will also tell you there are no absolute "best practices". Peter Alexander also has some great tutorial stuff (also based on Rimsky-Korsakow) that you can buy in PDF format. I think his RK edition is really invaluable as it adds a lot of current practice to this nearly 100-110 years old book.

    Then you will come to a point where you will find that the relative levels in soundtracks can actually vary a lot. Some Gabriel Yared scores for instance have the strings quite up front and prominently, whereas other composers tend to favor the exposure of the other sections. This is where you should (IMO) stick to a global personal template and adjust settings per project that you derive from your template (or reference project file). You can also decide to make submixes of the different instrument groups, render them to audio and make volume and other adjustments in this final mixing stage.

    Basically it's all about listening, training your "ears", actively trying to emulate mixes, improving your mixing skills, which all takes quite a while (and will never end). And don't forget to get an acceptable "feel" for the differences between classical recordings/mixes and soundtracks. They can be quite different beasts.

    Cheers,

    Pete

    PS: I also "think" in three groups (from an ambience perspective that is): strings, woodwinds and then brass and percussion. I do, however, have the two typical woodwind seating "rows" as separate input channels, so flutes+oboes/EH and clarinets+bassoons (fagotti). This allows me to have different EQ-ing for these "rows" as well as different early reflections. But in total I have 11 input channels plus a spare channel, so I typically have more separate processing (also dry and wet brass, the strings groups, etc). But it is smart to think in at least 3 "distance" groups.

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    @Eric said:

    .. I need info on how to pan each instrument family, how to add effects like reverb and EQ, when to add those effects to individual tracks/instruments, and when to just do a master reverb for everything. All of this is so foreign to me.
    I'm curious, has anyone made a template that has all the panning, effects, reverb etc done ahead of time so that when they start a new piece all they need to do is record each instrument?
    Any help would be appreciated, thanks!!
     

    Hello Eric

    Yes I'm sure you will find answers to all your questions and more.

    Have a look here: homepage  / or the Content of the "Sample to Audio" Tutorial... 

    But it seems you have already been there[:)] 

    All the best

    Beat Kaufmann 


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/