Thank you once again, David! This is exactly the kind of information I was asking for. Re: hardware/software connections, I just wanted a diagram of where everything exists in the chain when it is all hooked up, and in what order. Thought VSL might have one online somewhere for new users. Thanks!

I got an AMD2500+ (Intel equivalent is just about as good for the purpose but the AMD was cheaper for me), 1.5GB RAM (I'd get 2GB today), an inexpensive Asus board - you should choose one with at least one PCIe slot on it if you plan on future upgrades. Onboard graphics are ok if you're just doing music or office work on that computer, an extra graphics card could let you gain a little performance and giving you the last megabytes in RAM like a radeon 7xxx/9xxx or geforce4 mx for around 30 bucks...

The only thing I'd look out for is to purchase relatively quiet parts. You will need it and find out you'll spend the money twice if you don't. My soundcard is a M-Audio Audiophile 24/96, does quite well for the money. Connected to that are the keys, a Fatar SL-990 (action ok, missing additional controllers here).

If you don't feel comfortable building the hardware yourself, there are a few DAW builders that put the parts together for you. As sequencer I use Sonar (Cubase, Nuendo are also there) and as sampler GigaStudio (others are e.g. Kontakt, Halion). With the VIs you don't need a sampler.

Hope this helps,
PolarBear

Hi Guys,
I have Sonar 5 Producer and I wanted to know do you open VI as a soft synth? And do you need to open a seperate instance for every instrument? Any problems with running out of memory if you have to open several instances of VI? I want to run a complete virtual orchestra all at once.

Thanks

Thanks for your time, PolarBear. Can't tell you and other responders how much your input and patience is appreciated. Sometimes, when we are well on our way, we forget the panic of just starting out. I'm an Old Geezer, and probably don't have time for a steep learning curve.

@ericbrooking said:

Hi Guys,
I have Sonar 5 Producer and I wanted to know do you open VI as a soft synth? And do you need to open a seperate instance for every instrument? Any problems with running out of memmory if you have to open several instances of VI? I want to run a complete virtual orchestra all at once.

Hi Eric,

VI comes as a VST/AU instrument (softsynth) as well as stand-alone. You open one separate instance of VI for every instrument you're using. The problem concerning RAM is not in the number of instances (the program is pretty sleek) but in how many samples you want to load per instrument. But you can start a piece with less articulations per instrument, then work on the details one by one and optimize completed MIDI tracks to unload unused samples from memory - then go on to the next instrument, etc.

If you want a full orchestra with heaps of articulations at once, you'll need more than one computer.

Regards,

David
VSL manuals

Thanks David,
I see that I can use the cool ram optimizer for learning which samples are used in the piece and the pluggin will drop the others to save memory. Very cool.
How does the Universal mode work? I watched the video but it didn't say if this was a special mode or is it just a preselected matrix?
Thanks again, I'm glad I purchased this, it's just hard to have to wait till March to see it [:(] Although I do prefer to wait if it means it will be better.

@david ender said:

If you want a full orchestra with heaps of articulations at once, you'll need more than one computer.

Regards,

David
VSL manuals

Is that so for Mac users, too?

Come to think of it, nothing in this thread mentions Macs at all. Prior to VI a single G5 had no problem with "full orchestra with heaps of articulations" (as long as it used EXSManager).

Now that EXSManager is obsolete, what can you tell us about the performance of VI on a Mac system? Have you or anyone at VSL tried it? Is it true that of all of the VI demos so far, none have been made on a Mac?

- Paul

@david ender said:

If you want a full orchestra with heaps of articulations at once, you'll need more than one computer.

Regards,

David
VSL manuals

Is that so for Mac users, too?

Come to think of it, nothing in this thread mentions Macs at all. Prior to VI a single G5 had no problem with "full orchestra with heaps of articulations" (as long as it used EXSManager).

Now that EXSManager is obsolete, what can you tell us about the performance of VI on a Mac system? Have you or anyone at VSL tried it? Is it true that of all of the VI demos so far, none have been made on a Mac?

- Paul

This depends on your definition of a full orchestra. As the maximum that Logic can see is about 3.7 Gb, but I load way more than that in my Giga farm...! By your definition none of my computers would have a full memory.

DG

@david ender said:

If you want a full orchestra with heaps of articulations at once, you'll need more than one computer.

Regards,

David
VSL manuals

Is that so for Mac users, too?

Come to think of it, nothing in this thread mentions Macs at all. Prior to VI a single G5 had no problem with "full orchestra with heaps of articulations" (as long as it used EXSManager).

Now that EXSManager is obsolete, what can you tell us about the performance of VI on a Mac system? Have you or anyone at VSL tried it? Is it true that of all of the VI demos so far, none have been made on a Mac?

- Paul

This depends on your definition of a full orchestra. As the maximum that Logic can see is about 3.7 Gb, but I load way more than that in my Giga farm...! By your definition none of my computers would have a full memory.

DG

I don't have a definition (so I don't understand your last sentence), although I do have several demos on this very site ... all of which are inarguably full orchestra, and all of which were made on a single Mac.

Still, no Mac-related info pertaining to this thread's subject [*-)]

Sorry, I'm not being clear. All I was trying to say was that there is no way that I could use all the articulations that I want to for a full orchestra on one Mac.

However, on that subject, I believe that it has been mentioned that VI is more efficient than EXS, so if this is true you will be able to load more within Logic than you do currently.

DG

I see. If you're like me, there aren't even enough articulations TO load yet [[;)]]

I'm curious if you know that one Mac won't be enough (for you) out of direct experience, or if you're going by what knowledge you've gleaned from this site and other people?

Still, to return to the topic ...

I'm eagerly awaiting the VSL's answer to the original question, but from the perspective of a Mac environment ... If anyone at VSL has actual experience using VI on a Mac (full orchestra, please, not just those unrealistic, single-instrument demos), it would be great to know about it. (It would also be good to know if NO ONE at VSL has had such experience yet.)

Paul

Well,

not being a Mac owner, I have no first-hand experience, but there's people who do. Probably you'll get more concrete answers when they've returned from the NAMM show.

Anyway, Vienna Instruments runs on Mac and PC alike, the only difference being that the Mac is somewhat ahead with its RAM addressing system so you can load more instruments and get a "fuller" orchestra on a single Mac than on a single PC (provided I understood that rightly).

There's no more BASIC INSTRUMENTS (with only two velocity layers of the major articulations) in VI but the sample management is pretty cool. The major asset for me though is that you're much quicker because you don't have to fiddle around so much to get what you want, and can concentrate on the music!

Cheers,

David
VSL manuals

@david ender said:

Anyway, Vienna Instruments runs on Mac and PC alike, the only difference being that the Mac is somewhat ahead with its RAM addressing system so you can load more instruments and get a "fuller" orchestra on a single Mac than on a single PC (provided I understood that rightly).
Cheers,

David
VSL manuals

David, I think that I've understood that, but as I'm intending to use VI via FX-Teleport, and therefore not strictly speaking within a sequencer, I should be able to load almost up to my RAM limit (leaving some for XP to run on, of course), as each instance should theoretically be able to load up to 2Gb. Please tell me if I've got this wrong.

DG

@paulhenrysmith said:

I see. If you're like me, there aren't even enough articulations TO load yet [[;)]]

I'm curious if you know that one Mac won't be enough (for you) out of direct experience, or if you're going by what knowledge you've gleaned from this site and other people?

Paul

No, I have no first hand knowledge; I'm going by what I have read on this site. FWIW I use one machine for Strings (Pro Edition Cube/Performance Set, Chamber Strings, Solo Strings) one for WW and some Brass (including Epic Horns, French Oboe/CA/Eb Clarinet and WW Ensembles) and the other machine for the remaining Brass, Percussion, Keys and other odds and sods. I also have a K2 machine for samples from EW/Spectrasonics and others.

I doubt that I could run my full orchestral template from 1 Mac; even if I could load enough samples I would be in danger of running out of Polyphony, never mind plug-ins (reverb etc.).

DG

Yes, you certainly should. They're still stress testing at VSL, but the results up to now are pretty good - should be published quite soon, but I don't know how close to completion they are.

I have a PC with 2 GB RAM - with Cubase running (and IE as well as an old project loaded, because I checked it just now), there's still about 1.3 GB left which I can fill to the brim - one should leave 100 MB free, though - performance might suffer.

Regards,
d.

@Another User said:

Anyway, Vienna Instruments runs on Mac and PC alike, the only difference being that the Mac is somewhat ahead with its RAM addressing system so you can load more instruments and get a "fuller" orchestra on a single Mac than on a single PC (provided I understood that rightly).

There's no more BASIC INSTRUMENTS (with only two velocity layers of the major articulations) in VI but the sample management is pretty cool. The major asset for me though is that you're much quicker because you don't have to fiddle around so much to get what you want, and can concentrate on the music!

Cheers,

David
VSL manuals

Yes, David, that is the main point ... not having to fiddle around, so we can focus on the music. That, obviously, is why I want to be sure that scrapping the old EXS/Pro Edition setup and using VI will not be a giant mistake, or step backwards, requiring more unanticipated hardware purchases to rectify.

Looking forward to hearing from that (those?) Mac tester(s)!

- Paul

Ten days later and nary a peep from VSL?

@DG said:

No, I have no first hand knowledge; I'm going by what I have read on this site. FWIW I use one machine for Strings (Pro Edition Cube/Performance Set, Chamber Strings, Solo Strings) one for WW and some Brass (including Epic Horns, French Oboe/CA/Eb Clarinet and WW Ensembles) and the other machine for the remaining Brass, Percussion, Keys and other odds and sods. I also have a K2 machine for samples from EW/Spectrasonics and others.

I doubt that I could run my full orchestral template from 1 Mac; even if I could load enough samples I would be in danger of running out of Polyphony, never mind plug-ins (reverb etc.).

DG

DG-- we Mac uses must stick together. I'd like to know more about your setup. Maybe you've posted this info already in another thread. If so, please forgive the redundancy questions.

My curiosities:
-- your cpus, speeds, ram allotments..
-- midi and audio latency, sync reconciliation
-- audio cards, interfaces
-- surround projects?
-- networking using Airport? Yes? No? Good? Bad?
-- Wormhole or other applicaion?
-- Thoughts on X-Serve as a network solution?

It seems to me that we'll soon need new forums here since VI is not bound to Gigastudio or EXS. It seems to me that as users branch off into other platforms such as Digital Performer, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc., so will the discussion threads benefit from branching off.

Macs and their performance are discussed here...

http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=7384

Julian

Thanks for that detailed post, Julian.

I, too, am using a Mac. I work pretty much the same way you described ... all on one computer, freezing and unfreezing as I go along, making full orchestral performances with Logic. I'm not using audio, though ... just VSL and other samples.

I can attest that one (now old) dual-processor G5 with 2 Gb of RAM, and two fast 250 GB disks (using FW800, not SCSI) are sufficient to get the work done.

But that's using the OLD VSL (Pro Edition). I've asked several times on this forum for someone from VSL to at comment on Mac setup and performance regarding the new VIs. If they have replied, I have not seen it (despite having topic replies enabled all over the place).

DG has been kind enough to engage in the discussion (Thanks!) ... BUT, he does not actually use a Mac! -- I wonder how our PC-using brothers and sisters would accept technical advice from Mac users saying, "this should work, but we've never actually tried a PC"?

Julian, perhaps you and I will have to be the guinea pigs and get the real info out to everyone once we've installed and used the VIs. It would be nice to hear from VSL about their experience actually building a full orchestral rendition on a Mac system (as opposed to playing a handful of parts, à la the demo videos), if any. Absent that, however, we will simply have to forge ahead on our own. (Ah, the price of being early adopters!)

- Paul