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  • Breath Samples ?

    With all these outstanding VSL sounds right at my hands, and the fact that they do sound so damn real, I wonder if we will ever get some breath samples - which really would give me the last bit of reality for my projects.

    I still own AO, which contains some breath noises, but of course I would prefer VSL over them.

    I mean - a small amount of - let's say - 5 different breath sounds for solo woods and brass - allready would made my day. [:D]

    Maybe even as a future free download ? [[;)]]

    Thanks in advance,
    Seb

  • just grab a mic and breathe into it. or for more fun, invite a soprano, or an alto over to help out...

    [[;)]]

  • i'm a male flutist; i recorded these 7 samples of myself during playing a long piece of music. they are in 16-bit 44khz WAV format. I normalized them so there is some noise, but obviously they should be played very quietly in a recording. Let me know if they are of any help.

    http://carl.ript.net/breath.zip

    Maybe other woodwind players & female voices will contribute to the thread as well.

  • Hi tenfour,
    thanks for the sweet gifts - much appreciated [:)]

    Seb

  • Using breath before the note ie. on a flute or horn would need som e kinf of note anticipation software so the breath sound is triggerd before you hit the note. Would you then need something like an infra-red sensor on your keyboard?

    tone
    [*-)]: [*-)]

  • last edited
    last edited

    @Tone said:

    Using breath before the note ie. on a flute or horn would need som e kinf of note anticipation software so the breath sound is triggerd before you hit the note. Would you then need something like an infra-red sensor on your keyboard?

    tone
    [*-)]: [*-)]


    Just map it to keys that are not used for the range of that instrument and when you breathe in before you play a phrase, trigger it. Of course one would need a few different length breaths [:D]

    DG

  • Or apply it afterwards in your sequencer. Because remapping every wind patch can be a bit tedious [;)]

  • indeed; i just made a separate Halion program altogether for all breath samples, and treat them like a separate instrument part altogether

  • If you want to go really over the top, you really need different breath samples for each instrument. For instance, brass players will often breathe in partly through the mouthpiece itself and you can really hear the metallic resonance of the instrument when they do that.

    Of course, this is only really of use in a small ensemble setting or with exposed solos. If you had the whole orchestra's breathing you would never hear the music.

    I do recall having problems recording a solo violinist once though. Maybe he was an asthmatic but it was due to the close mic position for a jazz number. You wouldn't think about string players breathing would you?! [8-)]

    Coln

  • Colin's hit the nail on the head. As a w/w player and with experience in many ensembles of many sizes, the 'collective' gasp of taking a breath after a particularly long or sustained passage can clearly be heard within the orchestra. As a rule, and maybe for orchestrative reasons, w/w tend to get more work, which means you would think they're louder in the 'intake of breath' department. But there is a clear difference between the human intake with virtually no resonant response from w/w, versus the audible intake from Brass players, whose intake is enhanced by the 'echo' of tubing.
    A busy and challenging brass part is inflected with this resonance, and it's just one reason why the 'live' sound is so complex, and not easy to attain.
    3 Trombones all breathing in at the same time to play a fanfare or sustained loud note, have this 'pre sound' at a noticable level. Whether you class intake of breath as pitch orientated or percussive is up to you, but this 'human sound' is as much part of a live performance as anything else.
    String players are no different, and during complex passages, particularly tremolos, they have a habit of almost grunting whilst playing, and an sometimes audible exhalation after the passage has ensued. This is of course general, and in quiet passages, players are a lot more careful about sort of extra noises they make.
    So the notes you write with samples, start and finish precisely where you place them. In a live scenario, there are 'pre and post sounds' that create that human edge we work to attain, and in the pursuit of a live sound these should be taken into consideration.
    As an addition to this, there are many percussion players who quietly 'test' their instrument or pitch just before playing it. Although the sound may not neccessarily be audible, it does register and contribute to the overall sense of 'living' that is attibuted to a live sound.

    Then there's the additional sounds of mechanical manipulation of an instrument. The clarinets, e.g. going from a middle C down to E (written) will have to cover the three holes with the right hand, and operate additional side keys. In a slow passage this mechanical movement would be almost silent, but in faster or more strident passages, this sound will be heard, at least within the surrounding area. Likewise trumpets and horns, when playing intervals involving the use of pistons and valves will create some noise too, enhanced once again by the 'echo' of tubing. This is far more apparent in quicker passages than slow, but the ffect remains, especially in quiet, quick passages.

    The live sound is a collection of various noises both human and mechanical, so adding breath to a track is only one part of the greater whole. Incidentally William raised a good point in another thread about producing a sample performed work. The discussion included the possibility of respectibility for composing in this manner, and the acceptability of sampled versus live performance. Maybe this discussion about live additions to work should be considered from this perspective too. After all, i can guess a large chunk of today's film music is performed with samples.
    Do they include the 'live' sounds, and are they really necessary?
    What's the goal? An imitation of a live performance, or a work written with the intent of a sample based performance? There's a perception that sample based work is somehow inferior to using a live ensemble. This may or may not be true for the majority of the public, although i suspect many wouldn't know the difference if the work was well 'performed'. But, given the superb libraries of sound we have today, the respectability of samples versus live should be re examined.
    (IMO)

    Regards to you all,

    Alex

  • An insightful and fascinating read as always Alex

    I think if these breaths and key clicks were deliberately incorporated into the samples and patches it would drive us all to distraction. Not to mention us (or a clever piece of interpretive software) having to consider what notes we are moving from/to on any particular instrument and at what speed and dynamic - phew, that would be an even greater feat of sampling than we have now.

    Only today I was working with the Clarinet in Opus 1 and still had problems controlling the amount of breath noise on certain notes which, I felt, detracted from the recording. Some pretty drastic EQ sorted it out in the end but these boys (and girls) have really got their work cut out in providing us with the very best recordings of every single note and inflection - and you would never be able to please everyone.

    Colin

  • I know there are people who are very irritated by this, as it seems to be an elevation of fakery to an extremely high level. But if one does a folie of what a performer might do - small movements, breath intakes even including a mouthpiece, etc. - on a track-by-track basis it could be considered a basic part of a performance. It sure seems necessary when you hear a sample piece with pauses in it and there is DEAD silence. The lack of these little noises is similar to the unnatural sound of a dubbed film of the past - i.e. a spaghetti western - when there is no folie but only dialogue and a few sound FX. And the lack of an overall concert hall ambience is similar to the silences in film editing - you have to have "room-tone" to splice in or the soundtrack becomes very unnatural.