I begrudge spending £100 on an upgrade which, new features aside, is a very overdue bug fix. if you look at the list of fixes from version 3 to 4, there are hundreds of things that have been fixed, and many of them have been a pain in the butt for me and many of my Sib user friends. If they are going to charge the price they charge for a program (which I happily paid since there is nothing in my mind to touch it) and then keep charging existing and loyal users significant amounts of money (many of you will have been on board since version 1 or 2) for some new features, but also a well overdue bugfix then they can't be surprised if many current V3 users don't upgrade.

I complained to Sibelius before about the cost of upgrading from 2 to 3, and their response was not one of caring about their existing customers. Still, their product is fantastic, and they have a business to run.

Oh God...I have been ranting aimlessly...sorry guys.

While we're discussing the pros and cons, can anyone give any opinon on Geniesoft's Overture?

Raw, i can understand your feelings. I think if there is an aspiring software developer out there reading all of this, now's the time to build the next generation notation program, complete with sample player, mixer, sequencer, etc.

I only wish i was clever enough to do this myself!


Regards,

Alex.

@Another User said:

now's the time to build the next generation notation program, complete with sample player, mixer, sequencer, etc.

www.notionmusic.com

*Banquo

@Another User said:

now's the time to build the next generation notation program, complete with sample player, mixer, sequencer, etc.

www.notionmusic.com

*Banquo

Hmmmmmmm. methinks not. Playback not as good as in any sequencer, notation shocking [[:|]]

DG

Okay. I have just tried sib 4. I love the video thing (and the time code thing for that matter) but it still is missing the midi functionality needed in a few key areas (as far as I can tell)

You need to be able to shape midi controllers. The dynamic tool is limited to only 2 controlers and it is very unforgiving to use. Is there another version of this plugin that gives you more flexiblity?

I didn't go any further past that limitation but the other issue would be how easy it is to manipulate key velocities and note lenghth and also tempos. (also possibly channel changes mid measure etc. for when you want to end with clean scores and midi playback)

As cheezy as finale is, it's "midi tool" is 100% more useful and powerful than the sib 4. Like most things in finale its quirky but very powerful. If you don't beleive finale can produce great sounding midi go to my website

www.SymphonicUproar.com

and listen to any of the synth demos. They are all done soley on finale with giga studio and exs 24 running samples.

If we are making requests then, of course, I request a pefrect notation program with perfect intergration of sequencer like capbiblities. Man when are they going to freaking figure this out?!?!? It is a pretty simple request, no?

Magates-
Can Finale switch midi channels on the same staff? What version do you have?
thanks,

Finale can do any midi command that a sequencer can do. It is actually better than a sequencer at changing patches/channel on the same staff. The way I and others do it is to create an expression (it can be hidden or have no text at all if you want a clean score) and then select playback options there you can assign it to change channel/or patch along with a huge amount of other options.

I use 2005 but theese features have been available for a lot of versions.

One word of warning be careful with patch changes they won't playback unless you play from at least where the change occurs (this is true of most sequencers as well). (I think they will playback if you use the space bar mouse start method as opposed to the playback controls).

Firstly,
Mvan, thanks for the tip about Finale. I tried it and couldn't get on. Lots of stuff that seems incredibly unwieldy, and i agree, Sibelius is better than Finale.

But,
I've downloaded the demo of a program Called Overture 3 (version 4 out soon)
and had a lot of fun putting stuff together quickly and easily. It's easy to learn (given some basic knowledge of notation software), and the input is almost instinctive. By that i mean, it does what is says on the packet, without having to set up a lot of stuff first.
Better than that, Version 4 will be a native host for VST (Not RTAS or AU just yet)
so a wrapper for those in OSX will help with this. (I'm wondering if it will work with Andrea's Keymap due out soon as a 'midicabled' standalone.)
It's easy to to use, and with dynamic control specifically bullt in, including hairpins (not as a plugin), the response is immediate. The interface is easy on the eye, and doesn't give you a headache after the first ten hours (I tested this!)
I'm going to use it further and post here with updates.

Regards to you all,

Alex.

@hermitage59 said:

But,
I've downloaded the demo of a program Called Overture 3 (version 4 out soon)
and had a lot of fun putting stuff together quickly and easily. It's easy to learn (given some basic knowledge of notation software), and the input is almost instinctive. By that i mean, it does what is says on the packet, without having to set up a lot of stuff first.
Better than that, Version 4 will be a native host for VST (Not RTAS or AU just yet)
I'm going to use it further and post here with updates.

Regards to you all,

Alex.

There is a lot of talk about this on NS at the moment. I've also tried the version 3 demo, but it looks horrible (compared with Sibelius and Finale) and it can't do what my sequncer can, so for me it seems to be a good solution mainly for hobbyists and students (nothing wrong with that!).

DG

I used to use overture when it was version 1.1. I liked it at the time, but was very happy to move to Sibelius when it arrived. The other thing also, was that Overture kept changing hands. First it was one company, then another...I never knew who I belonged to.

The interface was clunky then. It sounds like it hasn't really moved on. The output wasn't bad though - better than Logic.

DG,
While I agree the interface isn't as pretty as Sibelius, the functions are, well, functional.
I'm not sure about the hobbyist bit either. After some research on the Overture forum, it seems version 4 will improve in terms of appearance, and the addtion of hosting is a development i'm interested in. I wrote in another post about not really needing a heavyweight, nearly all singing and dancing program like Logic, or Cubase, just notation, multi sample playback, and mix with record and effects capability.
As a quill, parchment, and ink user, i tend to think in terms of manuscript useability when i assess any software, so i guess my opinion is biased in this direction. I've used sequencers only to write short stuff, paid work, but nothing running to a full symphony or concerto.
So, i'm looking for a superb notational program that plays multi samples, and records to a mixer enabling me to add effects if i wish.
If i need to use a sequencer i have two, Logic and Cubase OSX, but they stay off more than get turned on.
But a notationally prominent software program with the extras i listed is more for me and my method of musical creation.

It's a matter of personal preference, and, to be open minded, however we get there, it's the end result that counts. I'd like the journey to be a little simpler with less programming and more writing, in a format i'm more comfortable with.

Regards,

Alex.

@hermitage59 said:

DG,
While I agree the interface isn't as pretty as Sibelius, the functions are, well, functional.
I'm not sure about the hobbyist bit either. After some research on the Overture forum, it seems version 4 will improve in terms of appearance, and the addtion of hosting is a development i'm interested in. I wrote in another post about not really needing a heavyweight, nearly all singing and dancing program like Logic, or Cubase, just notation, multi sample playback, and mix with record and effects capability.
As a quill, parchment, and ink user, i tend to think in terms of manuscript useability when i assess any software, so i guess my opinion is biased in this direction. I've used sequencers only to write short stuff, paid work, but nothing running to a full symphony or concerto.
So, i'm looking for a superb notational program that plays multi samples, and records to a mixer enabling me to add effects if i wish.
If i need to use a sequencer i have two, Logic and Cubase OSX, but they stay off more than get turned on.
But a notationally prominent software program with the extras i listed is more for me and my method of musical creation.

It's a matter of personal preference, and, to be open minded, however we get there, it's the end result that counts. I'd like the journey to be a little simpler with less programming and more writing, in a format i'm more comfortable with.

Regards,

Alex.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I would love it to be the silver bullet. Unfortunately I think that the notational side is not in the same league as Sibelius and it has nowhere near the functionality of Nuendo so I have no use for it at all. Of course if things improve one one side or other over the years then I will certainly look at it again.

DG