Two questions about volume:

[Felix Bartelt]

Hope, both fit in here:

1. Is there any reason, not to use the midi volume of a track. E.g.: Should I prevent to change the midi volume of a track, which is using a dynamic-layer instrument (e.g.: VA-10L-mV-sus_pp-f_4LAY)?

Or do U generally use both?

2. Should I turn up the volume of my Gigastudio Inputs from -6,0 (default setting) to 0,0?

I´m wondering, why even on a loud instrument like the HO-8L_schmett I don´t reach 0,0 DB in my Logic Input. On a single note with a velocity of 127 the peak is at - 7,2. On other instruments it is even far below, so I´m not sure, if all my settings are right.

[PolarBear]

Play a complete orchestration with all faders up. Sometimes on the loud parts you will or could get clipping issues, therefore I leave them at the preconfigured values or below.

[Felix Bartelt]

I guess that´s concerning question 2 or do U leave all midi-volumes at 90?

[congalos]

Felix,

I am so glad that you asked this question becuase I am dying to hear what people have to say. I have never really known what to do with all the levels, both in Gigastudio and in the sequencer. Leave one alone, adjust the other?

Is it best to leave all faders at the same level and adjust balances using expression and mod wheel?


Thanks again for asking and I hope this generates more response.

Carlos

[homebilly]

for about 15 years i have always started my sequences (in Digital Performer) on measure 3. this allows me 2 measures to set patch changes, midi volumes and (if needed) pan information.

as for VSL i do the same, although as i play all of my woodwind and brass parts with my EVI controller, the initial volume change becomes unnecessary, but for consistency sake i leave it in.

i have found that this really helps when it gets time to mix as everything is already pretty close.

it takes getting used to get the QT picture and Timecodes to start at the same time but is really easy once you have done a few times.

voila

[Felix Bartelt]

Thanks for your help, but sorry, I didn´t understand that.

What´s the EVI controller?
Do U use the midi-volume or keep every track at the same volume and just work with the velocity and the Modwhl (for filter instruments)?
What´s that with the QT picture and the timecode? With my limited knowledge I don´t get the relation to volume.

[homebilly]

the EVI controller is a trumpet styled midi controller invented by Nyle Steiner.
AKA Steinerphone. back in the day.

http://www.patchmanmusic.com/NyleSteinerHomepage.html

as the EVI is affected by air pressure the midi volumes are in turn affected. (in my particular setup)

as far as the strings and other midi keyboard parts, i usually start with a controller #7 message at 100 to start things off. as i work i may adjust that up or down to get a level.

later on at the mix stage. i'll use a baby HUI or a Mackie Control universal to mix with faders. you can also use a mouse or a trackball to mix one track at a time.

OR you can get a general level by using controller #7 data input manually at specific points where you want things to change in volume.

as far as QT picture etc. it's what i use to score to picture.

this will explain it.
http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?sectioncode=36&storycode=4606


good luck

[Felix Bartelt]

I get the feeling, that I didn´t ask my question right:

I don´t want to know, with which controllers U change volume.

My question was: Do you change the volume at all. E.g.:

I load a Vi-14 pp-ff MOD (4 Layers) to channel 1 of my gigastudio.
To change the output volume of this track, I got several possibilities:

Turn the Mdwhl.
Change the volume of the Track in Logic.
Use different velocities.

Which of these should I use (Specially when I only have the last to possibilities)?

[PaulR]

[/quote Felix Bartelt]My question was: Do you change the volume at all. E.g.:

I load a Vi-14 pp-ff MOD (4 Layers) to channel 1 of my gigastudio.
To change the output volume of this track, I got several possibilities:

Turn the Mdwhl.
Change the volume of the Track in Logic.
Use different velocities.

Which of these should I use (Specially when I only have the last to possibilities)?[/quote]


Felix,

(a) You will use the mod-wheel to change from pp to ff - definintely

(b) You will use overall volume controls to change the relative volumes of instruments to each other - definitely

(c) You will use cc? to change 'relative' sample volumes - occasionally

If you are using Logic, and it's possible for you, get the Logic Control desk. This will enable you to change volumes, sends, pans etc without having to use a mouse. Much easier and intuitive and a lot less fuss.

Remember that panning samples to place them in their relative, notional orchestral settings, is not really 'true' panning. In order to place things more realistically, you would use something like Gigapuse, Altiverb 5 or MIR.

[Felix Bartelt]

If I understood U right, I should use all possibilities. I just remember someone saying "don´t change the track volume", for which reason I don´t remember.

[Dar32]

A good picture to look at is the midi piano. Its signal comes on electronically at its level marker. If you turn up or down the fader level, then the signal will either come on when barely touching the key which will eliminate any very soft playing. Or it will not have any hard attack, the other way. So in electronic playing. The level mark of a fader is 00, Which should be all starting out point. In order to have the instrument play with all its dynamics properly. turn up any fader or any where else as needed in any piece, and then return to 00 level. The Electronic Global rule. In my Experience. If it has anything to do with the original Question.

[Beat Kaufmann]

@Felix Bartelt said:

1. Is there any reason, not to use the midi volume of a track?
2. Should I turn up the volume of my Gigastudio Inputs to 0,0dB?
Felix

Hi Felix
I felt me prompted by your questions to open a new tutorial: VSL IN GENERAL. This tutorial will grow up in course of time.
You will now find the first answers to your questions. Of course these answers are not "absolutely". So please use
VSL in your ways.

http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/tipspcmusic/vslgeneral/index.html

All the best
Beat Kaufmann

[Christian Marcussen]

If someone said "dont change the volume track" they might have meant that you should use "expression C11" instead

[thinkingMusic]

@R.K. said:

A good picture to look at is the midi piano. Its signal comes on electronically at its level marker. If you turn up or down the fader level, then the signal will either come on when barely touching the key which will eliminate any very soft playing. Or it will not have any hard attack, the other way. So in electronic playing. The level mark of a fader is 00, Which should be all starting out point. In order to have the instrument play with all its dynamics properly. turn up any fader or any where else as needed in any piece, and then return to 00 level. The Electronic Global rule. In my Experience. If it has anything to do with the original Question.

Please forgive my beginner's questions:

I'm using Cubase SX.3 and GigaStudio 2.5 on the same computer (pentium 4, 2.8 GHz, with 2G Ram), and always launch SX from GS. So far, I'm using GS for MIDI only (ie, I'm not doing any audio there - as far as I'm aware!).

I'm trying to figure out the correct volume and velocity defaults for both my sequencer (Cubase SX.3) and sampler (GS2.5), so that VSL samples will play as intended. However, there are a few different volume and velocity faders/controllers in GS, as well as ones within SX, so I'm not sure which are relevant (I know I should get to know GS better!!). Can someone help me out here?

GS has the following volume faders/controllers:
Midi Mixer fader (per channel, per Port) - default is "0"; Inputs, DSP Station - default is "-6"; Aux busses, DSP Station - default is "-6"; Masters, DSP Station - default "0".

GS also has its sample audition 'virtual keyboard' set to a default velocity of 127.

Then, SX of course has volume AND velocity faders/controllers for each track.
It seems to me that these over-ride my GS settings, but I haven't experimented to see what would result were I to change my GS settings -- so I'm not sure about this.

Last, my midi keyboard has, of course, its own volume fader.

Question 1: Which are the levels that are directly relevant to VSL sample performance?

Question 2: What would be the ideal "starting levels" for each of these faders/controllers?

Many thanks, in advance, for any tips you care to share!

[PolarBear]

Just set each controller to the standard. Giga Standard is just fine but the numbers are sometimes odd. You may find you want to decrease the Giga output a bit to prevent crackling and distortion. The values there are labeled in Midi scheme, 127 being 0db, 96 -6db.

If you adjust the CC(7 or 11 for volume) in Cubase, this will override the settings in GS. So be sure to set up a song with all controllers at standard values to get it correct the first time. However it's easier to control the volume via the sequencer as everything will be saved within the song file then (if you don't save Giga performances).

I think the velocity default of your keyboard is set right as I think it determines the max value of possible velocity. so if you set it 127 you get 127 velocity, if you set it 64 you'd only get half the velocity out... easy to try if you set it to 1 and press the keys really hard and only hear a ppp tone and not ff, you're sure how it works.

If you're launching your sequencer via GS the MIDI inports of GS for the keyboard are muted anyways so this doesn't matter if your keyboard MIDI is going through your sequencer first.

So basically - all set up to its defaults should be just fine.

Hope this helps,
PolarBear

[thinkingMusic]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, PolarBear.
There were a few things I didn't quite understand:

@Another User said:

If you're launching your sequencer via GS the MIDI inports of GS for the keyboard are muted anyways so this doesn't matter if your keyboard MIDI is going through your sequencer first.

Does this mean that the keyboard will be controlled by settings (eg, velocity) within Cubase, and not GS?

Sorry to ask so many questions, PolarBear, but I want to make the most of your suggestions. Thanks again for taking the time.

Michael

[PolarBear]

Well, let's see if I can go more in detail. First, I do not have Cubase, so I'm not too sure where you can do all the settings.

With "standard" I meant default - factory default. If you open a program, GS or Cubase, it starts with factory default. If you open a song in Cubase it will initialize the factory defaults for the song tracks. So if you go from there, without adjusting anything, you should be just right.

If you're unsure about your keyboard, you could record a little bunch of notes, once playing very very soft (should give you velocities <10) and then a bit louder and louder until you almost brake it (well don't, not worth it) - the last notes should have velocities >120. If you check your track data that you recorded it should reflect the values. If you can't go higher than a certain value on MIDI recording there might be turned on some setting on the keyboard (which I unfortunately don't know).

Well -6db, not a "standard" at all, it could well be a -3db or -12db or anything else. It's just that I knew this number [;)] Ok, there is a -6db knob sometimes in software so you could say this perhaps. FWIW, I just checked my settings, and found out I have the output level at 0db (which is factory default). No audible clipping problems so far, might be different with more busy tracks.

"Standard" value for Cubase volume is default factory, if it's unassigned (afaik default in most sequencers) the GS default settings are taken, and this means 127 for CC7 and CC11. This however has nothing to do with the velocity of a note which is sent on a seperate way.

You are right about the virtual Midi keyboard in GS - it's 127 all way and I also don't know how to change this. I think it was only intended for auditioning if you loaded the right patch, it wouldn't make sense to record a song with it alone. I usually don't use it at all because most of the time my masterkeyboard is turned on so I just play on that or draw in the notes in my sequencer. Default key velocity of the Keystation 88ES are (or should be) 0-127, depending on how hard you hit it.

Hmm, to control the keyboard you'd need a Midi out on your soundcard and a cable to the Midi in of the keyboard... With the keyboard normally you record (actual recording or just playing along) to the sequencer, which forwards the data to GS. You could also draw in the Midi data to the sequencer by hand without using the keyboard at all. On playback of the song the Midi is forwarded to GS. Another possibility is to record or play directly in GS with the keyboard attached without going to the sequencer. But this way you can't record the Midi notes in your sequencer.

So "muting the keyboard Midi inputs" in GS is necessary when using GS and a sequencer, because else you'd get a strange sound because GS is recieving Midi information from both, the keyboard and the sequencer which is forwarding the same data.

Hope this helps,
PolarBear

[thinkingMusic]

@PolarBear said:

Well, let's see if I can go more in detail. . . Hope this helps, PolarBear

Thank-you, PolarBear -- you are very kind to go to the trouble of explaining everything so thoroughly! I now understand it all. [:D]
All the best -
Michael