Hi Scott,

I'm in not a dissimilar position to yourself. But, though it was obvious this is a fantastic sample library, I wasn't sure how I would get along with the Performance Tool. So I purchased Solo Strings (I needed them particularly for a recent project) in order to try out my potential new working methods and gain some first-hand experience. That may be an idea for you.

I've also just taken advantage of the EWQLSO Gold Edition group offer in the UK, and though it was a great price (and to be honest I've literally only had a quick glance through the patches - it arrived yesterday) I'm a little sceptical about it's usefulness in many situations.

Being the Gold Edition it's restricted to only one mic position (the stage mics) but for me there is far to much ambience to be useful in anything but slow-medium tempo movements, and much of the attack is lost on many instruments. With the Platinum Edition you would obviously not have this issue (as close mics would be available) but I won't be upgrading as I'm not convinced about the whole idea of losing control over reverb and panning. To my ears, the dynamics across the keyboard are also less consistent than with VSL. I can see this being quite frustrating when playing with a lot of weight only to find that the next melody note is actually played mf as opposed to ff!

For me VSL will be the main solution and I'm very excited about the prospect of the Symphonic Cube . I too am really waiting for the next big leap in Mac processor development before I take the ultimate plunge - do you know when the next G5's are being released in the US?

Colin [:D]

@Scott Rogers said:

Does anyone here definitively know whether or not there will be a VSL Symphonic Editions for Kontak2?

No direct support but things translate easily enough if you have the time. VSL is so large that trying to plan how you will use it is a little like putting the cart before the horse. Your working methods and perhaps your hardware will likely change as you get to know it. Maybe not, but you might keep that possibility in mind as you move forward.

best, M.

@cwillsher said:

I too am really waiting for the next big leap in Mac processor development before I take the ultimate plunge - do you know when the next G5's are being released in the US?

Colin [:D]

Colin,

Thanks for the info.

The estimates for the dual 3gHz machines run anywhere from sometime in May to sometime early fall. I suppose that's vague enough to be fairly accurate. (And ever since moving to Southern California some years ago I've forgotten exactly when fall commences.)

But what I'm also hearing is that they may be quad processors. A recent development kit released by Apple showed a screen shot for quad processor management. If this happens, one of these loaded with 8 gigs of RAM and Tiger will be very interesting to say the least. And since Native Instruments have already implemented dual processor support in Kontakt2, it seems likely they would avail themselves of quad processor support as well.

On the other hand, this is all just speculation, but I think we'll know about all this by at least next September, and hopefully a lot sooner.

@Martin Bayless said:

No direct support but things translate easily enough if you have the time. VSL is so large that trying to plan how you will use it is a little like putting the cart before the horse. Your working methods and perhaps your hardware will likely change as you get to know it. Maybe not, but you might keep that possibility in mind as you move forward.

best, M.

Martin,

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure what you mean by "translate". My understanding is that the Symphonic Editions are only available for GigaStudio and the EXS24. Is there some way of successfully translating an EXS set to a Kontakt2 set? Is that what you mean? And how would one translate the performance tool to the script processor in Kontakt2? The prospect of doing all that seems formidable. Or am I on the wrong track?

On the other hand, I suppose I could move from DP to Logic Pro 7 and use the EXS for the Symphonic Editions, but I hear funny things about the EXS and it doesn't seem like it's nearly in the same league as the soon-to-be-released Kontakt2.

Thanks,

Scott

No worries. i'm a DP user although 9/10s of eveything runs through giga machines. I use Kontakt for things that aren't already in my giga templates. I originally thought about trying to do everything in Kontakt but let go of that idea pretty early on; even more so when I switched from keyswithing to program changes (which Kontakt doesn't recognize) to change articulations. In any event, my experience may be the exception, but you'll no doubt find you own working method over time.

As far as porting things to Kontakt, Kontakt itself will do a far job of importing giga files directly but I use Chicken Systems' Translator which is also good. The performance tool for Kontakt legato stuff is available for Horizon products so there are some legato possibilities you can get directly from vsl. The mapping scheme is different for the symphonic editions but they didn't seem daunting enough to rule out translating it if needed. All part of a learning curve that is probably both steeper and at the same time more rewarding with vsl stuff. You won't be disapointed if you jump in the deep end so to speak.

@Martin Bayless said:

I switched from keyswithing to program changes (which Kontakt doesn't recognize) to change articulations.

Is this true of Kontakt2?

haven't made the leap to v2 so i cant say for sure, but i dont think it will recognize program changes.

To avoid future misunderstandings I'd like to point out that the Performance Articulations of the Horizon Series in Kontakt and HALion format still need our Performance Tool. Only the Legato and Repetition Performances that come with Kontakt 2 can be played with Kontakt's script processor.

Best wishes,
Martin, Vienna Symphonic Library

Thanks Martin.

Can you please tell me definitively whether or not there will be a Kontakt2 version of your Symphonic Editions products?

(And if you say "no", I shall carry out my hunger strike in the front lobby of VSL headquarters. You wouldn't want an international incident on your hands, now would you?)

Cheers,

Scott Rogers

@Scott Rogers said:

[...] I shall carry out my hunger strike in the front lobby of VSL headquarters. [...]

[:D] Scott, you wouldn't do that. Our "Lobby" is maybe not exactly what you would usually call one.

Herb thought that the money our users pay should be better spent on new recordings than on new buildings ...

/Dietz

I'm afraid I can't tell you anything currently, nothing is decided and even if it was I couldn't tell you right now...
Martin

So then, I have some more questions:

1) Will your Horizon series products such as Opus1, Chamber Strings, and Epic Horns, which were made to work inside Kontakt, work just as well in Kontakt2? Would I have to convert anything? Any compatibility issues, etc.?

2) If I purchase Opus1, and six months later you release Symphonic Editions for Kontakt2, would I be able to upgrade for the difference in cost between the two products?

Cheers.

Hello Scott,
Sorry for the sluggish conversation, it's Easter Holidays in Austria...
So here are your answers:
1. All of our Horizon Series products in Kontakt format work perfectly fine in Kontakt 2. All of them have been tested successfully. You don't have to convert anything. Just download the Kontakt programs (.nki files) from the User Area of our website and use them with the samples (.wav files) which are included on the Horizon Series discs.
2. Yes! When you upgrade from Opus 1 to the Complete Orchestral Package of the Pro Edition, no matter which format each of them, the full price of Opus 1 will be credited.

Best wishes, Martin

Thanks Martin. Good to hear.

(By the way, when did they move Woodland Hills to Austria? I hope you didn't take Fry's Electronics with you.) [:D]

I'm in Austria in preparation for Musikmesse Frankfurt, I'll go back to Woodland Hills afterwards. Looking forward to Whole Foods and Chipotle, Fry's not so much [;)]

@cwillsher said:

I too am really waiting for the next big leap in Mac processor development before I take the ultimate plunge - do you know when the next G5's are being released in the US?

Colin [:D]

Colin, thought I would update you on this. The new word on the street is that a new line will be introduced at NAB in mid-April.

Specs are said to be:
Dual processors running at 2.0, 2.5, and 3.0gHz
Support in the higher-end models for 32Gigs of RAM using 4Gig RAM sticks.

Mind you, this is just a rumor, but in my experience a lot of these rumors prove to be very accurate. Additionally, it appears that Tiger is on the verge of release. If this is all true, at NAB I suspect they'll also announce the new Final Cut Pro loaded on the 3gHz model dancing realtime rendering circles. Stay tuned.

Thanks for the update Scott.

I also followed up your previous response regarding the talk of Quad processors - how cool would that be? Mind you one post I read was written back in 2001, so it's difficult to know what to believe, but I'm sure we can expect a useful upgrade soon.

I'm also a Final Cut Pro user, but I find current music software and soft-samplers much more demanding in terms of processors and RAM. Now how much is 32Gb of RAM likely to cost??? And is there any chance you'd give me a loan?

Colin

@cwillsher said:

Now how much is 32Gb of RAM likely to cost??? And is there any chance you'd give me a loan?

Colin

32gigs of RAM using 4gig sticks will run you about $24,000.

Loans? Sure. After I've purchased that much RAM, you can have all the money I have left.

Scott,
Couple of thoughts for you.

If you are a happy DP user - stick with it.
I have been a DP user from the very first version of Performer. I am also a Pro Tools Jedi.
Logic simply kicked my ass.
The most basic editing concepts that DP users take for granted are an ordeal in Logic.

Since moving back to DP and using my Pro edition in giga format life is simply great.
You should consider going the giga route for one reason only - being able to have your template loaded at all times.

There was no bigger drag than waiting for Logic to open a huge composition. 5 minutes plus at times.
And crashes (which there are way too many) become torture.

By having my pro edition up and running at all times with my preset template I can go from tune to tune in seconds.

Mac G5 with quad processors will not help the enourmous sample loading time that ensues with Logic/exs and load times are even slower with Kontakt.

PC's are cheap to build and the convenience of having an orchestra loaded and ready to roll makes them worth the $$. I'd bet in the end its cheaper to have 3 pc's and a moderately powered mac than a quad processor.

But back to your original post - Your assesment of VSL vs the competitors is very accurate.
To really compare apples to apples - compare demos from different libs by the same composer. (user demos).
My decision was made by comparing Thomas J's demos for both ewqlso and vsl.
VSL was the clear winner in terms of realism and the fact that more intimate moments ONLY can be achieved with VSL.

Best of luck - there will be much to learn and it will be totally rewarding.