The basson was the last instrument we have finished before we released the First Edition. Therefor there was no bassoon demo online, till now.
I thought, it's a good idea to feature the basson in a classical basson concerto.
Mozart is asking for muted violins and violas and non muted celli and bassi.
So Violins and Violas are muted strings of the Pro Edition.
1st violins are also layered with a soloviolin.

Celli and bassi are chamber strings.

Regarding solo cello and Schindler's List:
my own cello is not sounding that good, and I also have no chance to perform with my bad arms at the moment.


best
Herb

@herb said:

Regarding solo cello and Schindler's List:
my own cello is not sounding that good, and I also have no chance to perform with my bad arms at the moment.


best
Herb

I appreciate all you guys at VSL for all the great work you have accomplished so far and I am sure you will keep improving on it. However I would like to comment on your effort on Schindler's List. I think it was a wrong choice to demonstrate the ability of samples. Here the violin solo is expected to be very sentimental which I think can be performed properly only by a human being. With your samples each note of the violin sounded in separate bows which was very dissappointing to me. In general the quality of the sound is amazingly superb but in my view the human touch is missing with the solo performance. I don't know how to achive this artificial effect with samples. I think this should be the next step. Please keep up the good work.
Koray Ustuner

There are a few passages in these demos that are really quite good. Thanks for sharing. Herb's especially show a real dedication to technique.

I am floored by the Saint-Saens.

Evan Evans

The Soloviolin of Schindler'S List is mainly performed using performance legato and performance legato portamento. That means, the notes are performed on the same bow.

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Herb

Wow, the Danse Macrabre! That is great. Definitely one of the best performances of the library yet. I was just agonized that it didn't finish! A severe case of coitus interruptus. You shouldn't do that to people Herb.

great demos!!!
the basson concerto is gorgeous and i'm impressed, too, how well the muted ensembles blend with the chamber strings.
it is particularly brave that you tried mahler's adagio, since in this case there is no way to hide the weaknesses of the sounds [:D]. actually i am quite surprised how good this attempt (particularly in the forte section) already works - congratulations to michael hula.
nevertheless, i think this demo shows what is still missing, namely string sounds with a lot of vibrato that are nevertheless soft and dense (maybe that's what many people call lush or epic strings). in my opinion the current piano strings are too hard and thin for an adagio and therefore large parts have to sound more restraining than soft.
regards
kai

@evanevans said:

There are a few passages in these demos that are really quite good.

Thanks a lot. [8-)]

/Dietz

Just listened to the Saint Saens. Sounds great [:D] ! Herb, I think the detached string programming in particular is extremely convincing. Could you tell us what you used for the fast detached passages at the beginning in the solo violin and later during the fugue/cannon or whatever it is, where the ensemble detached strings pick up. You've captured the sound that I don't seem to be able to get, the rapid detached/staccato where you can hear the change of bow direction and it also works well in the high violins register.
Really subtle mix as well Dietz, did you employ any EQ on those high violins?

Andy.

For the fugue/cannon I combined chamber strings "performance-spiccato" with large ensembles alternated staccati.
The perf-spic are real performed bow/interval changes, that's why you can hear the changes. It's the same system like or performance-legati.

For the solo violin at the beginning I used basically alternated short notes:
stacccato, short and long detaches without vibrato, and for accents also sfz.
By the way, when I programmed the solo violin I ordered some dedicated patches for upcoming solo string releases, which will fit much better.

The classic mockups are more or less a prove of concept for me. When I discover a major gap, I'll add dedicated patches to our "to do list".

best
Herb

Nice work Herb. The favourite one for me was the Star Wars theme. Nice sound on the strings and nice mix too.

@herb said:

...The classic mockups are more or less a prove of concept for me. When I discover a major gap, I'll add dedicated patches to our "to do list".

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Herb

When you say a major gap you mean like no Euphonium right? [:P]

Sorry Herb - just ignore me - you'll find I go away eventually. [:)]

DaveTubaKIng

Thank's a lot, Paul.
"Leia" is also my favourite cue.
For the Violins I used large ensembles performance legati mixed with chamber strings strong vibrato patch (sV-espressivo).

No problem, Dave, the Euphonium is on our list.

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Herb

Hi Herb,

Outstanding work. Really encouraging to see you still doing this to find 'holes' (or to do lists). Leia is my fav. You say you have '2nd Violins'. Did I miss an update or release on this?

Dietz - great mix on this piece. In most mock-ups the higher the strings go the more it sounds like samples. Where the strings come in high it was a 'close' as I have heard it that high.

Of course the woodwinds are stunning!

2nd violins is always meant as a reference to the score (like 2 bassoons or 2 clarinetts),
All classic demos do have 2nd violins, which are mainly programmed with our 14 violin section.
So you didn't miss anything.

best
Herb

@Andy B said:

[...]
Really subtle mix as well Dietz, did you employ any EQ on those high violins?
Andy.

Thanks for that, Andy.

Yes, I EQ'ed the violins (I always do, but not two times the same way). I got rid of the obviously "closer" parts of the bow-noise around 280 Hz, and tried to find those two or three sharp resonances that are responsible for a certain kind of directness I don't want to hear on a large vitual stage. These are around 2.5 and 4 kHz. - Apart from that, I lowered the overall treble of the high string section with a smooth shelving from about 5 kHz upwards, for about three dB. OTOH, I _boosted_ the treble of the lower sting-sections a little bit, to get a more diverse attitude in the high-end.

In the end, the whole mix ran through the TDM-version of the UAD-Pultec EQ for yet another colour in the highs. This was just an experiment, though, and I'm still not sure if I really like that signature.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

@Rob Elliott said:

[...]
Dietz - great mix on this piece. In most mock-ups the higher the strings go the more it sounds like samples. Where the strings come in high it was a 'close' as I have heard it that high.
[...]

Thanks for the positive feedback, Rob. -

And sorry for being a little bit dense: I have to admit that I don't get your point completely as far as the third sentence is concerned. Is this meant to be a question?

[*-)]: [*-)]

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

Wow, Finaly some Williams!

I was most impresed with the Schindlers list - oh my, thoso solo strings sounds so Beautifull! Absolutely fabulous, very expressive!
(what articulations You used?)

I love Leias theme a lot and this mockup is very nice, but I miss there some more feeling of "life and space". I listened AB´s Debussy mockup again and again and was again impressed how live it sounds. Original SW recordnings have more "rough" sound - you often hear noises from players, chairs....and this will help this piece a lot. Also string passage from 3:10 sounds a bit messy for my ears, But again - Very nice, Some parts are Great!


Dance macabre - wow! Also great, all fast passages sounds really great. Very nice! [H]

Schindler Solovioline:

I started programming the whole violin solo using only one articulation (perf-leg piano) to get a "realistic performance" playing on my keyboard.
After that I divided the track to different articulations. Mainly performance legato piano / legato forte / and legato portamento.
For this piece I calibrated in my sequenzer piano and forte on the same volume level. So it was possible to switch between piano and forte, and I got all the espressivo difference between piano and forte but not automatically volume changes. Therefor it was also easy to combine the forte portamento also with the piano articulations.
I was a little surprised how well this worked, maybe it's not possible to do this on a solo piece, but with the orchestra in background it was quite easy.
At last I add some extra articulations for a few notes, like dynamic samples, fortepiano, some performance detaches - the soft detaches - which are very similiar to legato, and one performance glissando for a very slow portamento.

We also discussed, if we should add room noise to our mixes, which is ofcourse helpful to achieve more realism. At last we decided to do it the hard way and presenting the samples and mixes more puristic.

best
Herb

... which means that Herb is working on a convincing concept for a legato-audience patch [:D]

/Dietz

I hope he's doing multiple velocities -

p: slight murmur

mf: general confusion

f: heckling

ff: riot