hi there,

I´m just 5 minutes in this forum, just locking and just waiting for my Pro Edition, so I don´t know what is exactly possible, I just can hear the demos and dream about it... ;o) (give me one week and I´ll be back...*smile*)...

ok, so the first I heard was something I didn´t hear: A Room... !!! Think about it: more instruments, more room... it´s perhaps a little bit too simple, beacause I know that it could be very interresting to hear a symphonic Orchestra (like a Wagner Orchestra...) in a 20qm room, but this is normally not our personel history of hearing music... ( so we normally hear french horns with a long reverb, far away a.s.o.)

2nd thing is: I miss a little bit the full Orchestra-sound. I think you wanted to make it big, bigger... but I cannot hear it... it´s just a little bit... normally we make in this point the mistake to double the voices and to add other instruments playing the same...

remember waht Arnold Schoenberg said: What we can say with one voice, we should say with one oce...

ok, this is one point you did, you made it with the voices you wanted to hear... but it sounds not so fat I would expect (in the way of the art of the piece...)

so perhaps you should think about making it a little bit deeper, more fat... and it´s no question of EQ I think... perhaps you had to use more instruments...for example a little bit woodwind in addition to the strings...( in contrast of what Schoenberg said, but in YOUR case, it would be nessesary perhaps?)

last point: you are using in the beginning horns with a crescendo... I think you would like to here that they are on the point there and then they make their swell..(sorry for my english!)... I miss this playing "at the point"...like: Taaaa....TaTaTaTaaaa....TaTaTaTaTaTaaa.... ! It must be there! But in your case you think it, but the longer notes make a crescendo, so it´s not on the point, it comes...later...(DahaaaAAAA...DahahahaaaaAAAA)! Perhaps you should think about a Subito-piano or a Forte-piano with an additional crescendo... but don´t do this too much it could be too much...so not every time...but perhaps better then now... because you hear this accent you want to have (I think you want to have it?)

at least: nice piece, keep on working....!!! Everyone who makes music makes the world a little bit better... ;o)

take care,

Acker

wow, now I´ve heard the "more reverb version"...

Better, better, better... the most problems are solved...

now last point in my opinion is the crescendo-horns... think about a forte-piano...they are there, go away and will be back again... [:O])

greets,

Acker

Evan...

In my opinion your "secret" (is it really a secret?) is in using the right room for the horns and in the voicing...!!! Not just USING the sound, it´s USING the POSSIBILITY of colour...!!!!

[:O]) I don´t write more, but I think that´s it or? I like the way you write... [:O]) nice...!!!

@Leon Willett said:

[[:D]] Okay, okay.... er... how about unison with violas? But you'd still need lift from somewhere. Jurassic parc has unison with violas, bassoons and glock, which is a lovely sound--and you really only hear the horns, it doesn't get mushy. Ah, what the hell. I have a friend in Carmel who I'll be visiting next summer, and then I'll beat it out of you [[:D]] lol

Deal.

[:)]

Evan Evans

P.S. I mentioned the Violas above. it is almost there. This is not so obvious. It's quite a technique and a special trick.

There are no "tricks."

"Tricks" are for fools and prostitutes.

There is only good writing, or bad writing.

Thanks, Ackerdemiker, for those comments. As I already mentioned, the first version was mixed to be played in a church: that's why it is so dry. The second version is for listening at home or in the studio.

I think I understand your point about adding a fp< crescendo to the longer notes of the "fanfare" passages. Unfortunately, that is one articulation I find lacking in VSL. There are fp, sfz, sffz, and also crescendos of various lengths, but no crescendo notes beginning with a sharp attack. To create this kind of effect you have to layer two articulations together: a staccato or sfz note to give the attack, and a crescendo for the swell. I tried to do this in the trumpet melody at 01:07 and 02:38, but I did not succeed in getting exactly the sound I really wanted. It is probably possible to obtain a good effect by layering, but it would be much easier if VSL had recorded some samples of brass instruments playing fp< (like in Dan Dean's Solo Brass library which I also have).

@William said:

"Tricks" are for fools and prostitutes.

What do you think film composers are?

[;)]

Evan Evans

@William said:

There are no "tricks."

"Tricks" are for fools and prostitutes.

There is only good writing, or bad writing.

William... I don´t share your opinion about prostitutes... or was it about composers? *smile*
Good writing - bad writing ... BIG WORDS ... it´s said simple but perhaps you can tell me a little bit more of the facts which are making you able to decide if it was bad or good...

A.

Good writing is ... ... .... ... ? ..... ... ?....... .. ...?
..... : when you don´t use tricks. .... .. ........ .. .... [[:|]]




[:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D]

@mathis said:

Good writing is ... ... .... ... ? ..... ... ?....... .. ...?
..... : when you don´t use tricks. .... .. ........ .. ....

oh, thank you very much... NOW I understand... [:O]) Now I´ll be able to become a really good composer... I have got the secret... ThankU [:P]

Are these guys mocking you William?
If so, I wish I understood so I COULD JOIN EM! [6]

[;)]

Evan Evans

in my opinion the "trick" is in "good writing"...!!!

[:D]

Now you´re talking!

...

I have no formula or tricks for making something sound good and don't like people pretending they do. It is knowledge, skill, inspiration which are difficult to come by - no magic formula or "secret" tricks. If you want to argue with that, go ahead.

@William said:

I have no formula or tricks for making something sound good and don't like people pretending they do. It is knowledge, skill, inspiration which are difficult to come by - no magic formula or "secret" tricks. If you want to argue with that, go ahead.

I 99% agree with you on this. However, I must admit that I have used what I consider to be tricks when preparing reduced orchestrations of the standard ballet repertoire. Some of what I do is not strictly speaking real orchestration, but I am faking a sound that really needs more instruments. For example if there is only one flute available, then I need a fake to give the impression of 2 flutes and a piccolo. I consider my soloution to be a trick, simply because it is not the correct way to do it.

DG

New version up:

http://www.buist.org/david/WeddingOverturefullGS3mod3.mp3

Comments welcome!

Enjoyed listening to the latest mix -- having just gotten sound and internet together on one computer again, finally. This may be your intention, but there are a lot of orchestrational effects piled on in a short time, appropriate maybe for an apotheosis after 20 minutes or so, but (for me) not in a single short piece. But they are all used well, and that might be your goal, so it works well.

If you wanted to tame things down some, then it might be worth identifying just what is the central music, beyond "whooshhhh bum bum de dum" (joking here) -- and presenting it more clearly.

Thanks for listening and commenting, Gugliel. My earlier version was criticized for not being "thick" enough. Are you suggesting that I have "overdone" it now? Or is your comment directed more at the melodic/harmonic/rhythmic content than at the orchestration?

Actually the whole piece is intended as an "apotheosis" of sorts. It is meant to be played at the end of the marriage ceremony to accompany the newly weds exit from the church.

I don't think you overdid it at all. Nice piece. My only criticism is try to make things a little less perfectly synced - like the octave strings and in general the attacks on full chords played by the trumpets - because occasionally that makes it sound more electronic and keyboardish. But overall it has a very bright and festive sound, just right for wedding music.

Of course, not for Mathis's wedding. He would pick something by Penderecki to establish a joyous atonal atmosphere. Or maybe do a time-stretched wedding march. And probably scare off his bride in the process.