If you don't mind, I'd like to chime in with my two cents worth: I've very much like to see:

a) A move away from the Performance Tool when possible and instead moving to Gigastudio 3.0 rules. If not this, then...

b) At least wrap the Performance Tool in a VST or DXi wrapper so that we can save the settings directly with our sequencer's data (it may not be practical since it grabs global control of MIDI ports). The point is just to get the tool synched up with the project a bit more easily, and avoid having to futz around with re-routing my ports to accomodate this tool.

Another thought - encourage Tascam to create a Gigastudio plug-in format for MIDI-rule processing (if this isn't already how it works) so you can re-tool the performance tool as a Gigastudio MIDI-rules plugin.

In general, I'd really like to get away from every library creating their own external real-time MIDI processing tool (yours included) that grabs my MIDI ports by the gonads. [[:|]] They're a pain to set up (since they must be loaded separately from the project), and getting them all to play nicely together (or figuring how to string them together) is nothing short of a nightmare. Surely you can see how much confusion is generated by users trying to get the Performance Tool up and running on a single machine? [[;)]]

I don't mean to sound overly critical or anything, because before there really wasn't much of an alternative solution (and maybe there still isn't, but I haven't heard the explanation). And, I'm really glad to have the functionality of the tool. However, I'd really like to see an end to these types of external tools if possible. Now that Gigastudio 3.0 can be used as a VST, the ONLY thing that prevents me from loading up an entire performance with one click from within my sequencer is the Performance Tool.

Thanks for listening! [H]

I agree for more that 100%.

Since I included the PerfTool in my setup, the entire setup is unstable and can't be used for more than an hour without stopping the PT, resetting GigaStudio and restarting PT, because of stuck notes and weird hanging (stuck) short midi-sequences. I can even immediately evoke these problems by banging on the keyboard and sending out a lot of notes to a sampler PC. It's just not working transparently. VSL never reacts to these reports, apart from the typical: upgrade from Win98 to XP. (I'd say ok: if you buy me all the DDR's that I need replace).

If MidiRules on GigaStudio can implement the behavior from the PerfTool, why not move the functionality over to the sampler?

The only software that I want to run on my sampler PC's is GigaStudio, no other software, that can (potentially) add complexity and instability.

Cheers,

Peter

@Peter Roos said:

I agree for more that 100%.

Since I included the PerfTool in my setup, the entire setup is unstable and can't be used for more than an hour without stopping the PT, resetting GigaStudio and restarting PT, because of stuck notes and weird hanging (stuck) short midi-sequences. I can even immediately evoke these problems by banging on the keyboard and sending out a lot of notes to a sampler PC. It's just not working transparently. VSL never reacts to these reports, apart from the typical: upgrade from Win98 to XP. (I'd say ok: if you buy me all the DDR's that I need replace).

If MidiRules on GigaStudio can implement the behavior from the PerfTool, why not move the functionality over to the sampler?

The only software that I want to run on my sampler PC's is GigaStudio, no other software, that can (potentially) add complexity and instability.

Cheers,

Peter

I too would like to see the retirement of the Performance Tool when it becomes possible, as it crashes my system at least once a day.

DG

Performance Tool as VST...sounds great.

BUT...the VSL team would lose a great deal of freedom in developing new revolutionary techniques based on the Perf Tool if they had to stick with a fixed set that's available in any sampler. The other solution would be to team up with Tascam and let them develop all new ideas. I don't think the Halion/Kontakt/EXS users are too keen on that idea though... [[;)]]

/Mattias

Peter, I don't use Repetition mode very often, but I can't think of a single time the Performance Tool has crashed on my XP system.

I've also had zero problems with Giga from Day One, so this makes me wonder whether XP isn't the Answer to Everything.

Just a new users viewpoint: i refused to buy any VSL for a long time because of the apparent reliance on the performance tool. Basing this primarily on my unpleasant experiences with the Garritan 'maestro tools' (and I believe they have much in common). The negative comments here are much like the opinion I formed, right or wrong. Now, because GS3 included some VSL libraries, I've been persuaded to buy the solo strings. Maybe I'll keep buying -- but not if I can't successfully work around the performance tool with midi controllers or gs3 imidi rules.

Sorry gugliel, but that's completely irrational.

I think the performance tool is the easiest thing in the world

@Another User said:

external real-time MIDI processing tool (yours included) that grabs my MIDI ports by the gonads. They're a pain to set up (since they must be loaded separately from the project), and getting them all to play nicely together (or figuring how to string them together) is nothing short of a nightmare.

Hate to be called irrational! Every thing extra on a busy system adds to extra start-up, clean-up, configure, and shut down time. I never 'play' live, so driving things with a joystick or a conveniently placed key doesn't offer anything to me. One may see what's possible with a tool and then decide if that is what is worth having -- for instance, the legato mode decisions made in preparing the VSL Horizons solo strings are very creative, if a little weird -- but it is easy enough to duplicate in midi: (play a keyswitch corresponding to the number of half steps up or down in the legato interval near the end of the first note followed by the next note transposed 4 octaves if it's a down-direction interval else the regular note.

You may say, why would you add three notes to the midi stream instead of one? But I say, I'm already modifying the 'environment' in the midi stream note by note, it's not hard to add two notes while I'm tweaking attacks, velocity, sometimes vibrato rate or depth, and patch choice. And when it's all done, it is fixed, repeatable, cut-and-pastable sometimes, and always interpretable, not mysterious.

When you fist set it up, you have to tell the Performance Tool which MIDI input to listen to and which Giga output to talk to, then you tell Giga to listen to the Performanc Tool. There's nothing to it. Now I double-click on Mattias' Giga Load Timer, the Performance Tool setup document, and the Giga document with my template.

Apart from when the system hard drive broke a few weeks ago, that machine hasn't stopped running for a year and a half. I rarely even shut it down, and in fact I usually don't even switch my KVM over to that machine when I'm working.

You can find quotes like the ones you pasted for any program in the world. That doesn't mean they're the norm.

Gugliel,

As much as I would like to see the Performance Tool become a plug-in tool instead of a stand-alone tool, please don't misunderstand my general admiration and satisfaction with this library. In my opinion, the VSL library stands well on its own without the Performance Tool. However, the automatic processing of MIDI messages simply gives an added edge of realism to the instruments that is otherwise just not found in the sampling world. I don't think your concerns are irrational, but the problems with the Performance Tool might not be quite as bad as you may believe.

The issues I had with the Performance Tool were strictly ease-of-use and flexibility (it forces me to use a whole port for Performance-routed instruments). Also, it took me a LONG time to find a way of integrating it into my single-computer system (it literally involves me re-routing MIDI to an external loopback, then back into my system on another port).

I was just asking the folks at VSL to look into alternative mechanisms of employing the same functionality, because I ultimately think it would be better for everyone if there were easier-to-use solutions. Other people have apparently had stability issues with the tool. However, it's been quite stable on my system once I got the MIDI routing figured out. The only other pet peeve of mine (which is sort of nitpicky) is that now that GS3 is rewireable, my entire system can be saved and loaded all via one master controller (my sequencer), except for the Performance Tool.

The bottom line is: Even knowing the Performance Tool quirks, I'd still highly recommend VSL as a great sample library that can stand on its own merits. The fact of the matter is that sampling technology is still in its infancy, relativelys speaking. Streaming hard-disk recording via Gigastudio was something of a revolution in opening up near unlimited sized samples, but we'll have to be patient as more advanced performance techniques are developed along with these new technologies.

james, why don't you download and install the VSL MidiRouter (virtual midi cable) - at least then you would only need to block one channel instead of a whole port and free up a physical midiport as well
christian

James Boer, thanks for your comments and clarification. Well put. Over the past few days I've been working (still with Horizon Solo Strings) with the legato mode instruments in gigastudio 3, driven by midi. Weird as the approach seemed to me at the beginning, and wasteful of precious loaded-up memory as it is, I'm getting some really good legato lines with direct programming in midi. It takes one extra note (a key switch) per musical note, plus selective transposition up 4 octaves when the direction of the interval is down, but it does work. Again, it suits me better to do this while I'm 'scultping' the line then to rely on an external program to do it for me -- but I've been known to walk when I could drive and drive when I could fly, too!

My two cents on the Performance Tool is that it is a very mild inconvenience (if that) and yields the greatest innovation in sampling history which is true legato (not found in any library.) The fact that a new release of a third party program (GS3) is not up to speed is a non issue. The tool has never crashed my (XP) system and is extremely simple in it's use and comprehension thereof.

Dave Connor

cm, thanks for the tip. I wasn't aware there WAS a VSL virtual MIDI cable. At the moment, though, my system is working fine. And, with GS3 on its way (should be here any day now), dedicating a port for the Performance Tool won't be as bad.

I tried earlier using a freeware set of virtual MIDI ports (I forget the name), but I never could get the wiring working correctly. The whole reason I went to an external wiring scheme was to get it working at all.

And Dave, I wholeheartedly agree that the Performance Tool is a wonderful bit of functionality. And, once it's working*, it really is only a minor bit of inconvenience.

* Note the key phrase here. [[;)]]

One thing I'm curious about. Dave, you said that GS3 was "not up to speed." Does this mean that the legato MIDI-processing rules in GS3 are incompatible with VSL? If so, that's seems somewhat lame, especially as they've been touting VSL as one of Gigastudio's premiere libraries! [*-)]

may i step in - lets say VSL is incompatible with iMidi legato. now the limitation of 32 dimensions is history so a lot of new possibilities are coming up. seems to make no sense for me to support an old workaround.
another issue: how to replace .pal and .vlp files to load different configurations for the same instruments?
christian

James,

I gathered from the previous posts that using the midi processing in GS3 was not a seemless transition from using the performance tool. I don't have GS3 yet so I really don't know (cm seems to clarify above.)

I can understand you not being thrilled with the PT if you've had tons of problems with it. I haven't had any consistant problems but I'm not running a sequencing program on the same machine (I run DP on a Mac.) It has always struck me as a very solid program, but we all pull our hair out over different things. Didn't mean to nullify any legitimate issues you may have.

Preparing to pull hair and a few teeth upon purcase of GS3 [:O]

Dave Connor

Lol, I should really quit while I'm ahead.

I really think people are still misinturpreting my intentions and attitude regarding the Performance Tool. It took me quite a while to get the PT working on my system, but it's fine now. And, I really like it. It's a great piece of software. [:)]

But to me, the real genious is how the keyswitching setup combined with the MIDI processing rules, not the little utility itself. It just seemed to me like there should be a way to make some sort of plugin that alters the MIDI stream in the same way. This would give all of the benefits and make it so much easier for any new user. However, cm kindly replied and mentioned there were some timing issues that were discovered.

Not to sound too altruistic, but in essense, I'm mostly just trying to help VSL become a better and more user-friendly product (I guess that's the computer programmer in me coming out). Heck, I got the Tool working on my system now, so I can live happily with the PT as it is. But anyone who buys this product with the intention of using a sequencer and sampler on a single PC is going to face the same sort of tricky setup problems that I faced.

Anyhow, thanks for the replies guys. I didn't mean to drag this out so long. I'll be getting GS3 fairly soon myself, so I guess I'll soon find out first-hand how the MIDI-processing stuff works.

Oh, and apologies for the somewhat Gigastudio-themed topic here on the main thread. Probably should have been in the Gigastudio section. [[;)]]

@Another User said:

There will be arttfiles for multi dynamic performance legati.
No plans to abandon the performance tool.

How are these progressing?

I'min the process of making my GS3 template.... so I would really like these files! [:)]