Ah! You are talking about string ensemble muted? Like ALL Strings, but muted?

Well if you ever open and edit any of the other "Strings" instruments, you'd see that they are layers anyway. So just copy and paste it all into one 4 layer Strings instrument.

Evan Evans

Correct Evan, I am refering to the "all" string patches you find in the String Ensemble folder - of which I like to use while in early sketchings of scores.
And I know that the layers exsist in the various mute strings, but
I don't generally have the time to program patches nor do I feel that I should have to create a patch that really should be in the lib anyway - that's VSL's job. I just don't understand why such an obvious patch has been left out. I can understand if it were some obscure type of patch, but this is meat and potato stuff.

Oh ok. Well if it helps, I CAN understand why it was left out. They are overworked and doing the impossible, so sometimes they forget something on their release. It's totally understandeable to me. This is a MASSIVE library.

Anyway, once you've made one, post it to the VSL Sharing board I setup.

Evan Evans

Hi.....my feelings also......see my post from July 19th '04.....Herb's was the last reply on July 23rd...title:Extra String Ensemble patches? Can't work out how to link directly.....but it's on the main forum. I find the 'all' patches to be extremely useful in the string ensemble, and couldn't agree more......in my opinion we should have Vl+VC+KB_pizz, Vl+VC+KB_mu, and Vl+VC+KB_sul.....2Lay's as well,.....and also the 'all' patches. These are, as you say, bread and butter patches......especially for keyboard players. My cube is for Giga, and my Performance set for EXS. Unless someone else manages to put these patches together for Giga, and posts them to Evan's exchange site, then I'll have to try and put these patches together in EXS from the imported translations because trying to create these patches in Giga is a NO GO AREA for me......not a clue I'm afraid.....Giga editing is a mystery. According to Herb's last reply to me it is also not a simple 'artfile' fix so I guess I'm gonna try the EXS route.

Best, Andy
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I've only done simple art file changes or changing release settings in Giga. I quess if I had some time to breath, I could maybe dive into making a patch, but really, I'm not a programmer and it something that Herb's crews should have taken care of long ago. It would probably end up taking me ten times as long and mountain of frustration to get it right if I were to do it.

I have been working with the string ensemble "sus" patch for string orchestrating as well. What's bothered me the most is the jump from p to f (or whatever the two layers are) it's too much. So I would love to see 4 layers (I've tried to figure out how to do it in the Giga editor but no luck.) It would also be nice to have at least the bass as well (sus patch is VI + Celli.) Right now I switch between the sus and VA + KB to get full range and here viola parts as well.

Can someone post a link that explains how one creates a new instrument in GS? The manual is pitiful.

Dave Connor

I must be missing something here. I've never even tried the "String Ensemble" patches. The idea of putting all instruments together except the Violas seemed a bit limiting for finished work and too complex for draft work. Are the String Ensembles separate recordings, not compilations of the individual instruments? Are they unique and interesting enough to use rather than the separate instruments?

IMHO the lack of the Violas is a much bigger omission than the lack of con sordino.

As I mentioned in the thread that andygrainger refered to, I've created my own "String Ensemble" patches using the individual ensemble instruments. Those contain the Violas. It wasn't easy work because all of the layers had to be interwoven. It would require a CD or DVD to distribute that (art files don't contain the samples) It would also require VSL's consent.

Hi Forester......I don't think you're missing anything!!......and I do believe that the string ensemble patches are not seperate recordings, but made up from the individual sections. Certainly the lack of Violas in a classical context is obviously no good, and I'm sure you were careful in the mapping of your own patch to get the balance right. I find these patches useful in other, more commercial areas of composition, where the subtle lack of the violas in the blend does not matter so much.....where I'm using the strings as a pad for example. Are you willing to share the fruits of your labour?......sounds like you might be......will the VSL people allow this I wonder?
I am certainly going to try and put some patches together in EXS from the translations; the only problem is that the mod wheel vel layers do not translate at present. Even Chicken translator.....(whose original claim when I purchased the special EXS edition was that it converted all types of programming data) does not at present convert mod wheel crossfades successfully.....at least not in my experience. After waiting almost a year for the PC version of translator to be ported over to the Mac in the hope that it will convert these programming aspects, (still waiting) I may initially have to create single velocity patches. Anybody else been down this road??.....comments most welcome!

I use the strings patch for composing and sketch work. As a keyboard player, I find that I can get what I need to get my idea across to a director quickly using a full section patch. Then I'll finish it accordingly.
It's a fast and easy way to deal with the string section as a whole. I generally pull out all the voices or movements and reorchestrate them later with the their proper sounds and techinques after I've completed my final composition sketch.

So, the violas missing in the all patch is not so much an issue for me. I just add them in later taking the voices they would normally take. All though, I would certianly like a patch that contained the violas as well - along with the other obvious combinations. The more patches we have of this stuff, the better we are able to make use of this library.

I wish Herb would respond to this issue. How about it Herb? Can we get a patch from VSL, or are we at least allowed to share if someone else comes up with it?
Thanks
T

You can share ART files, but you are not allowed to share sample content.
But, I could post a workflow how to create your own combination mappings.
I think it's not that hard and a detailed description should do the job.
What do you think?

best
Herb

Herb that would be great. I don't mind making my own, I just need some help doing it.
Thanks

I posted a "merging instruments" tutorial.
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?p=25690#25690

hope this works for you

best
herb

Herb, Thanks for going to the trouble of doing this tutorial......I'm sure we all appreciate your help. Now it's just a question of building up the courage to delve into the Gigaeditor! Just one question after reading through your directions: can you have the instruments overlapping? The play ranges you used do not overlap, but ideally there would be a range of the keyboard where both muted viola and muted violin for example, played together. Is this possible? Can you then balance the volumes to get the blend right? Do the string ensemble patches that you included in the PE overlap in this way? Thanks once again for your time.

Thank you very much Herb.