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  3. ultimate music production Computer

  • ultimate music production Computer

    M
    M
    OKAY... so I'm looking for getting something neat, tidy, and most importantly quick, reliable, and that doesn't obstruct the speed of creativity (i.e. preferrably 1 computer, not 2 or 3).

    Everyone recommends 2 or more computers for use with the VSL. This, I believe is due to RAM and CPU limits. What about the following specs for a single music production VSL computer:

    Dual Opteron 246
    2 x 250GB in RAID MIRROR (safe storage drive for albums)
    1 x 250GB set as MASTER (program files)
    4GB RAM (upgradeable to 12GB)
    2 x 19" TFTs

    Can anyone see any potential problems with creating large-scale VSL mixes on such a computer? I know 4GB is a lot of ram, but I've heard of people running out so easily when using VSL samples. My friend's P4 2.4Ghz 1.5GB ram is always on 100% cpu useage when he deals with large complex mixes, and runs out of ram, so the audio cuts out occassionally. Hopefully the dual opteron 246 solves any potential problems with cpu power, and hopefully 4GB solves ram issues.

    The other option was G5 dual 2.5Ghz MAC, but with the PC.. it's in a sound-proofed case, upgradeable, probably running server 2003, but most importantly, it will run PC software (Protools, Giga, Logic 5.5, Sound Forge, Batch converter, Steinberg Nuendo 2.0, Acid), whereas MAC will not run many of these PC music production softwares.

    So, what do you think? Would this computer live up to the task? Is there still a need for more than one computer? Would it become outdated quickly and need upgrading?

    Any feedback from MAC and PC users appreciated.
  • N
    N
    Everyone wants a 1-computer solution, not just you. The problem is that GigaStudio recognizes a maximum of just over 1GB of RAM in a 2GB machine. A 3GB machine will not recognize more - the max is 1GB, and only if you do Mattias' tweaks (at the top of the Giga section in this forum).

    You can get a little more on a G5, but it still isn't really a 1-machine answer to orchestral composition.

    Without getting into a Mac/PC debate (I use both), there's also music software that runs on Mac and not PC. Logic and Digital Performer, for example.
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    without having a reference system seen working reliable i'd stay away from AMD - why? many audio applications are compiled with flags set for optimization for intel and there are definately heat problems with them.
    i've a board here (oversized CPU cooler + 3 fans inside the cage + 2 additional ones on the back) which can run 7 minutes under full load until it's overheating, so system is useless for compression.
    whereas batch converters and any kind of effect processors might be happy with much CPU power, this will not be an issue eg. for giga, also some apps may use memory above 2 GB (given you start with the /3GB switch), but currently it seems giga does not (which would be the most important for me when we talk about sampling).
    especially with giga-VST i feel you would be more cost-effective using a reasonable machine for audio processing and several slim *slaves* for sampling
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • A
    A
    I have an athlon 64 3200 which runs quite nicely due to it's cool n quiet feature......when it's not working hard it under clocks which makes the fan on the cpu very quiet. It's been very stable for me even under full load. I'm running a MSI K8tNeo motherboard.
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    @cm said:

    without having a reference system seen working reliable i'd stay away from AMD - why? many audio applications are compiled with flags set for optimization for intel and there are definately heat problems with them.
    When was the last time you put together an AMD machine though? [:D]
  • M
    M
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    @cm said:

    ... some apps may use memory above 2 GB (given you start with the /3GB switch), but currently it seems giga does not (which would be the most important for me when we talk about sampling).
    especially with giga-VST i feel you would be more cost-effective using a reasonable machine for audio processing and several slim *slaves* for sampling
    christian



    Thanks for the info. Actually, I was looking around on the giga website, and according to them, giga's ram limit is restricted by the cap limit in the windows kernel. In windows XP, this would be 2GB. In windows Server 2003, the kernel's limit is 32GB, so I don't see how running giga on windows server 2003 would have problems accessing the ram up to 4GB and more.

    The reason why I considered AMD Opteron is because it's the most powerful x86 processor available, and would seem faster than intel according to independent benchmarks. Also, I had a look at the videos on this site where top producers use a dual opteron system.... http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ComputingSolutions/0,,30_288_7146_10983^11117,00.html

    Is it easy to set up a "slave machine" next to another machine, for sampling?

    Can anyone think of any problems, considering Windows server 2003 supports a much higher RAM limit in giga?
  • G
    G
    .... Can anyone think of any problems, considering Windows server 2003 supports a much higher RAM limit in giga? ....

    Another question might be, "Would GIGA recognis (is it optimised for) Win 2003, or vice versa?" ....
  • M
    M
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    @GTBannah said:


    Another question might be, "Would GIGA recognis (is it optimised for) Win 2003, or vice versa?" ....


    GIGA's recognisable RAM limit is apparently determined by the windows Kernel - check out their site .. here's a link .. http://www.tascamgiga.com/support/faq.php#20

    Windows Server 2003 64-bit but is also backwards compatible and will run 32-bit Win XP programs (once again a reason to get an AMD 64bit OPTERON system - intel 64-bit procs don't support 32-bit applications, whereas AMD 64-bit support 32-bit also). I've got an email going out to tascam giga team, asking if they've tested giga on windows server 2003, and if the cap on RAM is as limitless as their FAQ claims.

    As Win server 2003 can run Win XP programs, and giga is optimized to use any amount of ram (dependent only on windows CAP LIMIT), I see no reason why giga isn't better optimized running unders server 2003 rather than win XP.

    Any feedback welcome!!!

    Matt
  • M
    M
    "most importantly, it will run PC software (Protools, Giga, Logic 5.5, Sound Forge, Batch converter, Steinberg Nuendo 2.0, Acid)"


    Am I the only one who finds it a bit alarming to refer to Pro Tools and Logic as "PC software"?
  • D
    D
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    @mike connelly said:

    "most importantly, it will run PC software (Protools, Giga, Logic 5.5, Sound Forge, Batch converter, Steinberg Nuendo 2.0, Acid)"


    Am I the only one who finds it a bit alarming to refer to Pro Tools and Logic as "PC software"?


    Yes [:D]
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
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    @Jean said:

    When was the last time you put together an AMD machine though? [:D]
    6 months? let your machine run at 100% CPU load and watch the onboard temperature sensor ...
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    mstedeford, interesting idea with the 2003 server (64 bit) - have to dig into the whitepapers if your idea keeps beeing promising before ordering a mobo. everything else will show the *real world* (TM) test [;)]
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
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    @Jean said:

    When was the last time you put together an AMD machine though? [:D]
    6 months? let your machine run at 100% CPU load and watch the onboard temperature sensor ...
    christianYou're not telling me yours gets over 80 degrees? [[;)]]

    I've run some cpu stressing programs (Prime, etc.) way back when I set up these systems, stressed they remain around 60~65 degrees. That's with rather crappy cooling too, slow fan with emphasis on silence. [:)]
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    i didn't let it get 80, slightly above 75 i've canceled the operation (after 7 minutes) and since then the machine is only allowed to do simple mapping and other easy tasks. oh, i forgot to tell: the room where it is located is airconditioned to 20 C ...
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
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    @cm said:

    i didn't let it get 80, slightly above 75 i've canceled the operation (after 7 minutes) and since then the machine is only allowed to do simple mapping and other easy tasks. oh, i forgot to tell: the room where it is located is airconditioned to 20 C ...
    christian
    That does not sound healthy indeed. [:D]

    What kind of athlon cpu is on that thing anyway? XP or older model?
  • N
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    @Another User said:

    Thanks for the info. Actually, I was looking around on the giga website, and according to them, giga's ram limit is restricted by the cap limit in the windows kernel. In windows XP, this would be 2GB. In windows Server 2003, the kernel's limit is 32GB, so I don't see how running giga on windows server 2003 would have problems accessing the ram up to 4GB and more.


    Putting a finer point on what cm says about real world tests, I'll start by repeating point blank that "this would be 2GB" means precisely nothing; you will load 1.05GB maximum on a 2GB or greater XP machine if you follow Mattias' tweaks (if you don't, it'll be about 20% less). Period.

    The internet is chock-full of BS computer specs, and they sound impressive because the words are big. They usually have little to do with reality. If you think you can load 4GB in a dual Opteron machine, best of luck to you. My hunch is that you risk loading nothing, because Giga isn't designed to run on those machines.

    I hope I'm wrong, but I sure wouldn't want to be the one to run such an expensive experiment. For my money, I'd buy three cheap machines that you know will work well and a KVM switch. If portability is an issue, put them in 2U rackmount cases and then buy a roll-around rack case (SKB, Gator).
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
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    @Jean said:

    What kind of athlon cpu is on that thing anyway? XP or older model?
    i don't have it in front of me now, but IIRC an XP1800
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
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    @Jean said:

    What kind of athlon cpu is on that thing anyway? XP or older model?
    i don't have it in front of me now, but IIRC an XP1800
    christianWeird, one of the systems here has an XP1800. Just did some checking and with full load it hovers around 58 degrees. This is in a reasonable hot room too.

    Perhaps the temp measurement on the mobo you are using is screwed up?
  • E
    E
    CM, with all respect, i have to say, that i never got higher then 70 degrees on my dual 2800MP, with 80% load in Nuendo. I never had more stable machine (may be becouse Windows become better).
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    eclect, i'm glad to hear this - i've strongly considered to get a dual opteron for fun and testing (not only audio) but have been kept away by some not so positive reports and my own experience with AMD. i would be happy to run a 64bit SQL server on such a beast instead thus really expensive HP machines.
    maybe i'd have to add the predecessor of the machine i mentioned burned because the brackets of the processor fan melted and - well, milliseconds later the board was scrap. i've only got the XP1800 to avoid a new install of the system.
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.