tape saturation and other magic bullets...

[bluedane]

So, i was writing last week and was playing around, thinking my stuff sounded pretty good, and i applied the TrueTape tape saturation in Cubase SX. Wow, the whole thing becamse smoother and more lush - I know, i know, it still comes down to the writing, but man, if you want a magic bullet, it definitely comes close.

Anyway, now that i've discovered it and become greedy, are there any other units out there that people just can't live without? Other saturation plugings, compressors, etc?

I think i just got a taste of what post-pro can do for sound... I'm well aware of what better orchestration can do... [:D]

-denny-

[flyingfoxuk]

If you want to give your tracks some magic, there's just one thing you need - UAD-1 from Universal Audio - www.uaudio.com, the plug-ins are absolutely awesome - I've got a Fairchild sitting across my mix bus, just to nicely round the mix and pull it all together - you wouldn't believe how smooth you can make your masters until you've tried it- Pultec EQ's- great on strings and also at the mastering stage. There's lots of great tools here - the compressors are unequalled and I couldn't be without it!! Whilst I wouldn't strictly recommend all the techniques I use for strict orchestral recreations, they will without doubt give you a massive bump in the right direction for some impressive masters - I use these in conjunction with Logic's built in mastering tools over the Waves Masters bundle - it just sounded too clean and clinical for me.

Check it out - I don't think you'll be dissapointed.

Joseph A. fox

[DG]

@bluedane said:

So, i was writing last week and was playing around, thinking my stuff sounded pretty good, and i applied the TrueTape tape saturation in Cubase SX. Wow, the whole thing becamse smoother and more lush - I know, i know, it still comes down to the writing, but man, if you want a magic bullet, it definitely comes close.

-denny-

Oooooo, I'm just waiting for my Cubase SX to arrive; now I'm getting even more impatient [H]

[Dietz]

Yes! On certain occasions, harmonic distortion can do wonders on samples which are as pure as ours.

The most realistic piece of gear (apart from the real thing, of course) is Crane Song's "HEDD-192", a digital tube- and tape-saturation simulator. I use it on literally all my mixes when I can get my hands on it. The tape-saturation-part of it is also available as a TDM-plugin called "Phoenix".

-> http://www.cranesong.com/

On the VST-side of life there's PSP's "Vintage Warmer" for a similar effect ( http://www.pspaudioware.com ), and of course Steinberg's "Magneto", which has some additional features in the new version that came with Nuendo 2, BTW.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

[Audun Jemtland]

What kind of effects are you talking about? can I hear? bluedane, how about a little treat for me?

[bluedane]

it's not earth shaking or anything, but i want to do a little more work on it before i post it (tough crowd, here.) [:)] But, in general, it just gives it kind of a warm richness - i'll try to put it up soon. I'm sure that most of the user samples here have something like it applied to them.

-denny-

[Peter Roos]

@Dietz said:

...The most realistic piece of gear (apart from the real thing, of course) is Crane Song's "HEDD-192", a digital tube- and tape-saturation simulator. I use it on literally all my mixes when I can get my hands on it. ...
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

Price: $3,495.00

OUCH [:O]ops:

Seriously, can tools like the PSP VintageWarmer increase the "reality" factor of sampled strings? If so, is this achieved by the harmonics added by the saturation distortion, by the "warm" compression, or both?

[mathis]

I definetly second the recommendation of PSP Audioware. They also have other nice plugins (saturators and comps and a wonderful eq). I couldn´t live without them anymore. They did wonders on my mixes.

Honestly I wished VSL would have recorded the samples more "grippy". It sounds like the TC electronics digital "pureness". Is there TC involved, Dietz?
It´s not impossible, but I find it quite hard to get these sounds bouncing out of the speaker. They need lots of level.
What were the tricks of the "Airtforce one" mix? It´s amazing how relaxed this mix behaves levelwise and how much sound is actually coming out of the speaker. In my mixes I really have a loudness problem in comparison. But that is also due to my use of big fortissimo tutti which is always a pain in the a** whereby in "Airforce one" most things are relaxed mezzoforte which can sound louder recordingwise (at same level).

[Dietz]

@mathis said:

[...]
What were the tricks of the "Airtforce one" mix? [...]

Oh, that's easy: Experienced composer, experienced programmer, experienced ears at mixdown - and some nice gear (SSL et. al.)

/Dietz

PS - t.c.electronic is not involved in the VSL per se, but they are a company we all highly respect here.

[Dietz]

@Peter Roos said:

[...] Seriously, can tools like the PSP VintageWarmer increase the "reality" factor of sampled strings? If so, is this achieved by the harmonics added by the saturation distortion, by the "warm" compression, or both?

It can't increase the "reality"-factor, but it will add a certain amount of distortion our ears like to hear.

... this is something you can add quite easily in the mixing-stage, but you couldn't get rid of it if it would be recorded like this in the first place, hence our "pure" approach to recording.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

[Peter Roos]

I am playing a bit with the demo version of the PSP Vintage Warmer on my laptop (with headphones), using some dry orchestral submixes. It's indeed an intriguing bit of software [:)]

Subtle effects, and probably risky in the hands of untrained mixers [[;)]]

Dietz, what would be your preferred way of working with this plugin? For strings, would you apply it on separate submixes (or tracks), thus for each string group? Or just on a total strings mix (v1 up to cbs)?

I can imaging that this type of tool is more appropriate for strings than for woodwinds and brass, but I am probably completely wrong with this intuition. Any thoughts?

Thanks for the tips!

Peter
www.PeterRoos.com

[mathis]

@Dietz said:

Oh, that's easy: Experienced composer, experienced programmer, experienced ears at mixdown - and some nice gear (SSL et. al.)

Ja, ja, I know, I know.... but did he eq a lot, did he use lots of outboard or mainly his desk, did he use dynamics in channels, groups and/or master, what kind of reverberation and early reflections did he use, and, finally, how long did he need?


Peter,
I use the Vintagewarmer mainly in the master, for groups and channels I use plugins from the mixpack (up to know, it´s also due to CPU demand). Try in addition to the Vintagewarmer the MasterQ, it´s a really nice piece of software. I didn´t find these beautiful trebles in any other plugin up to know.
Yes, and I agree it´s very tempting to overuse it!

Bests,
- M

[Nick Batzdorf]

The tape saturation in Antares' Mic Modeler is surprisingly good. I hadn't thought to use it on VSL instruments (before this!), but I bet it would work well.

In fact, didn't they come out with a plug-in that only does saturation?

[Dietz]

@Dietz said:

Oh, that's easy: Experienced composer, experienced programmer, experienced ears at mixdown - and some nice gear (SSL et. al.)

Ja, ja, I know, I know.... but did he eq a lot, did he use lots of outboard or mainly his desk, did he use dynamics in channels, groups and/or master, what kind of reverberation and early reflections did he use, and, finally, how long did he need?
[...]
- M

Sorry, this wasn't meant to sound bold (actually I tried to make a joke).

I'm sure that Mal Luker used everything he usually does with other Hollywood-stuff, at least this was how we briefed him back then :-] . I haven't been there, so I can't give you any details. Mal was traditionally hired for this job, and he did it well. -> http://vsl.co.at/english/demos/Classics/Jerry_Goldsmith/Air_Force_One_%2D_The_Parachutes_%2D_First_Edition.htm

I made the experience that several of our users think that in "real life" all you would do is to set up some nice mics, press "Record", and hey presto! - built-in Cinemascope. Quite contrary! Those guys use _every_ tool they have at hand, and they have lots of them (and know how to use them). The VSL is meant to be exactly that: the pure, unaltered recording, which can be sculptured in any direction you want to. Think of our samples not only as a Virtual Orchestra, but more as the virtual multi-track recording of an orchestra.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

[mathis]

@Dietz said:

Sorry, this wasn't meant to sound bold (actually I tried to make a joke).

No problem, I understood it. But still I´m looking for more information. Are you aware of any (online) articles about full-blown filmscore mixing? (interviews, studio reports etc.) I mean there are articles about everything and then more, there must be more resources about that.

Hail to hotdogs,
- M