Ok, how about this for a quick setup of human noise: A couple of long (5 min or so) audio tracks with the most subtle noises of the kind that would be going on no matter what the music would be (breathing slightly moving position on chair, moving the foot, minor throat noises). Add to that a one-noise-per-key (88 keys) sample program so one could throw in some noise ad libs (page turning, page turning but hitting the stand with the bow ( [:O]ops: ), taking instrument up, putting instrument down etc) The musicians will know more exactly what the possible (instrument specific)noises may be.

I dont mind foleying myself, but we might as well have the noises recorded in the exact same setup as the instruments. My studio is has not a soundproof room to record in, remember these noises are very quiet.

I would just be happy with a sample for "studio silence" as one of the strange things about listening to music created entirely with samples is that the first note happens out of nowhere.

Have a listen to Andy B's "La Mer"

http://www.vsl.co.at/english/demos/Classics/Claude_Debussy/La_Mer_%2D_Jeux_de_vagues.htm

I'm sure he included background musician noise that he had recorded at a live session. You'll find the details in the long thread on this site or on the Norther Sound Forum.

DTK

DG that is a good point. It is similar to "room tone" in film sound. You must record it at the time of shooting in order to splice into sections where sync sound has been cut otherwise you get a sudden "deadness." And samples regularly have this "deadness" so it is extremely realistic to make a "room tone" of the concert hall.

Also, what LDT suggests sounds good. What I've heard the most in studio recordings is "massed breaths" at sudden loud entrances (I remember a von Karajan recording of a Bruckner symphony where the brass suddenly comes in blaring out of total silence- you can hear a huge gulp of air before it) page turns and slight "foley" rustles of clothes and/or instruments (especially in percussion sections - things being picked up and put down). But if you want a live concert effect and include also a concert hall ambiance with some audience noises, it can add even more a sense of space to the sound.

All of this comes into the arena of stopping digital things from being too perfect. Ironic how with analog, the desire was always to make it MORE perfect but with digital it is to make it LESS.

Yeah, today software engineers spend lots of time figuring out how to degrade audio the right way [:D]

One of my favorite sayings:

"Subjective enhancement by objective deterioration!"

:-]

/Dietz

I remember one of Maarten's demos had some noise of this kind, I thought such a "performance" sample was accessable with the Pro Edition somehow? Apart from that it is really easy to get this done yourself, recording yourself on an old chair trying -not- to make noise. [:D]

PolarBear

I own GOS and VSL (Pro). Until now only GOS has an 'Ambient' patch. I find it quite usable.


Here's a piece I used it on (most noticeable on the beginning and end, there's a 'cough' at 1:24 or so)

http://www.robelliottmusic.com/mp3s/Romantic/L'amour%20et%20l'Honneur.mp3


Having said that, I think VSL providing to their Pro and First owners this type of patch would be terrific.

Rob

Hi Rob,

Very effective!

I experimented with this a few years ago in The Forest Awakes

(a lot rougher and shorter than your cue - just as another example)

Hi Peter,

I like your piece - very magical. The Ambient sounds you use allow the music to 'spring forth' out of something other than 'nothing' (hopefully that is not too confusing). If we are imitating what 'humans' would do in a real session, then human sounds, etc are just a part of it. When they are missing, something in us says 'fake'. I really look forward to seeing what VSL can come up with.

Can you imagine this 'ambient' patch through the performance tool [:P]

Rob

I think the average listeners often cannot distinguish general midi from a real orchestra but more often hate that human noise...
And musicians can really distinguish a humanized sample from a real orchestra.
So to me is a waste of time.
Sergino

Hi Sergino,

While I think adding noise can easily get out of control (a little is good, a lot is better syndrome [:'(] ), it really doesn't take a lot of time (2-3 minutes to call up a very small ambient patch and add a track.)

Listening to a recent cut of Yo-Yo Ma expertly playing his cello - I would very much miss his 'breathing' - especially on the most of passionate of sections of the piece. Also, on some recent woodwind solos (smaller chamber sized pieces) I have recorded some 'breaths' in just a few of the most obvious spots and it really 'breathes' life into the part - IMHO.

Again, I don't agonize over making this perfect - I am just trying to bridge the gap from samples to live - sort of like counting 1,2,3,4... and letting someone else 'think' 5 in their mind. Hope that makes sense.

Rob

To me this is a possibility to introduce the "sound" of a hall, not for having the coughs and scratches of the second trumpet player recorded. Ideally no sheets are needed to perform the music, but who got that time these days... It is about the "magic air", the sound a mic "produces" when exposed in such an enviroment. Not having noises, hating noises, most will know listening to something sounding sterile. We don't recognize the real clean kitchen in a film as a room we would live in, we miss some dirt, some mess, some "noise" to make it "real".

IMHO,
PolarBear

Human noises, huh? Er . . . for a minute I thought you were talking about something crass. [:D] [:O]ops:

~Chris

Well, I am totally into the adding noises thing, except I don't thing I've sucedded at that task. I've been listening to a lot of VSL demos and I have noticed "air" on the recordings. (I believe this is produced by the microphones that are recording the session, except on midi composing there are no microphones [;)]).
So, what causes this effect? Some kind of audio capture? Reverb?

Btw: Where can I get these human noises besides from the GOS? I would love to experiment on some of the quieter passages of my music.

Thanks

Any ideas? [*-)]

As music editor for the Lord of the Rings scores, I can tell you we spent quite a bit of time cutting out all the other noises you hopefully can't hear!

However I do think it's very useful to add some room ambience, so long as the loop isn't so small as to draw attention to itself. Together with decent reverb it does draw together the whole sound of the 'orchestra'.

Cheers

Michael

Individual Room-Noise will be integrated part of our MIR-engine, BTW. This will fill those dreaded "digital zero"-breaks nicely, using the proper mic-position and -format, of course.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

PS - Thanks for appearing on our forum, Michael. We're happy to have you here.